Extoll your hate of Valentine's Day (was: Extoll the virtues of your love!!)

[A2Z]

I really hate Valentine's Day too! I mean first of all I had to make reservation for this fancy Italian restaurant last month just to be sure I had a table! Then there's the flowers and chocolate, it's easily going to cost me 30$. Then dinner's another 80$-100$!

Then after all that there's the sex! I know she's going to want me to pleasure her in some way. Probably more than once. For chisakes, V-day's on Monday this week! Mondays are my do nothing day! I'm tired and I just want to watch crappy sitcoms and fall asleep on the couch.

And, to top everything off, she's probably going to buy me something. More than likely something practical like a DVD, CD or maybe even a Gamecube game. How crappy is that!?

Yeah, Valentine's Day really is a steaming pile of feces.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I really hate Valentine's Day too! I mean first of all I had to make reservation for this fancy Italian restaurant last month just to be sure I had a table! Then there's the flowers and chocolate, it's easily going to cost me 30$. Then dinner's another 80$-100$!

Then after all that there's the sex! I know she's going to want me to pleasure her in some way. Probably more than once. For chisakes, V-day's on Monday this week! Mondays are my do nothing day! I'm tired and I just want to watch crappy sitcoms and fall asleep on the couch.

And, to top everything off, she's probably going to buy me something. More than likely something practical like a DVD, CD or maybe even a Gamecube game. How crappy is that!?

Yeah, Valentine's Day really is a steaming pile of feces.

SO what was V-Day like for you last year?

 

[The Shaman]

Then after all that there's the sex! I know she's going to want me to pleasure her in some way. Probably more than once.

I take it you're not a parent...

"More than once." *sigh* Yeah, I sorta remember those days. Now it's, "What? Again?!? Go to sleep!"

 

[Terath Ninir]

I take it you're not a parent...

"More than once." *sigh* Yeah, I sorta remember those days. Now it's, "What? Again?!? Go to sleep!"

Amen on that. "What? You want sex twice in one week? Good grief, roll over and go to sleep already..."

 

[TheAuldGrump]

So I did. Now, if anyone would take the position that the celebration has something to do with the saint, it would be the Roman Catholic Church. However, here is what they have to say:Although the Catholic Encyclopedia doesn't quite come out and say it, this certainly is indicative of the more mainstream theory that this festival is a pagan survival and not related to the saint.

While I don't agree with those who argue that the festival is a modern creation of greeting card companies, the argument that it pertains to the saint beyond sharing his feast day is equally untenable.I think there is a problem with festivals that create barriers to participation by creating interpersonal and familial relationship entry requirements. As Christmas and American Thanksgiving have gradually become holidays that fete the family rather than Jesus or the harvest, they have become increasingly associated with feelings of inadequacy and suicide attempts. I am equally concerned about Valentine's Day; again, one is barred from celebrating the festival properly if one does not meet cultural requirements for how one's social life is organized.

In my view, holidays that claim to be universal should be constituted as inclusive things. But as Christmas changes from being church-centred to family-centred, more and more people are left out; as Thanksgiving goes from being harvest-centred to family-centred people are excluded. Valentine's Day is the worst of these festivals because it excludes a larger portion of the population and offers no alternative means of observance to those whom it excludes.

Feh upon it! I much prefer St. Valentine's Day to Generic Winter Festival #4. Guess what, I want to be able to celebrate something that has meaning! If it excludes some people then let them create a holiday for themselves. (I recommend March 4th for GM's Day, though that really is a celebration caused by pecuniary interests. ) There are also many feast days that get ignored by most calendars in modern times, with enough digging everybody can find something. (Even flagpole sitters: St. Simeon Stylites.)

As for the pagan survival, many early Christian holidays were created in that fashion, either whole cloth, or moving the day to coincide with an existing holiday. And that too is alright with me. Sadly, many of the manufactured saints have been removed from the calendar.

This isn't intended as a religious discussion, though it is leaning that way, holidays and their histories are just interesting. Even Groundhog Day. (I still remember the year that the groundhog being televised had died in its burrow, drowning in a January thaw... What they pulled out of the burrow was a little the worse for wear.)

Stupid Groundhog Day joke: So we pulled the little rascal out of his burrow, and showed him his shadow. Well, first he looked kind of puzzled, then he started jumping up and down, then he spun around three times, and finally he just exploded!

Since then we have had an earthquake, followed by three tornadoes, and I don't mind telling you that now we're really worried!

The Auld Grump

 

[fusangite]

Feh upon it! I much prefer St. Valentine's Day to Generic Winter Festival #4.

I hope you're not mistaking me for someone advocating generic winter festivals. I like specific, meaningful festivals. Frankly, I think Christmas and Thanksgiving are being robbed of meaning, not invested with it these days.

The meaning of a festival is tied, to a large extent to its mode of observance. Processional observance has been by far the most inclusive in the past. But today, observance is not tied to many people operating in public space but instead to small nucleated groups operating in private space. I think that's bad news for society. Arguably, the only major processional festival our culture has today is Gay Pride Day -- and it, for all its qualities, cannot be defined as an inclusive festival.

Guess what, I want to be able to celebrate something that has meaning!

As do I. Look: I'm not advocating that what is celebrated change here; pagan societies were damned good at celebrating fertility in inclusive ways. What I'm saying is that the mode of observance of the festival is exclusionary. I object to this not because Valentines Day is special but because all of our society's major festivals, with the exception of national holidays, are drifting in that direction. We live in a society that is erecting new barriers to entry for participating in major festivals (Christmas, Thanksgiving) and increasingly promoting existing festivals that have entry barriers (Valentine's Day).

If it excludes some people then let them create a holiday for themselves.

Well, attacking your holiday is one part of the process by which I'm trying to do that .

There are also many feast days that get ignored by most calendars in modern times, with enough digging everybody can find something. (Even flagpole sitters: St. Simeon Stylites.)

No argument here. I think we should do more to honour Saint Christopher. 9' tall 250-year old dog-headed mean who can't speak deserve much more recognition.

As for the pagan survival, many early Christian holidays were created in that fashion, either whole cloth, or moving the day to coincide with an existing holiday. And that too is alright with me.

Same here. I was just taking you at your word when you claimed that the day had something to do with the Saint.

 

[Aesmael]

An opportunity for concerted action in a perceived positive direction?

But how would one go about 'fixing' these holidays?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I hope you're not mistaking me for someone advocating generic winter festivals. I like specific, meaningful festivals. Frankly, I think Christmas and Thanksgiving are being robbed of meaning, not invested with it these days.

The meaning of a festival is tied, to a large extent to its mode of observance. Processional observance has been by far the most inclusive in the past. But today, observance is not tied to many people operating in public space but instead to small nucleated groups operating in private space. I think that's bad news for society. Arguably, the only major processional festival our culture has today is Gay Pride Day -- and it, for all its qualities, cannot be defined as an inclusive festival.As do I. Look: I'm not advocating that what is celebrated change here; pagan societies were damned good at celebrating fertility in inclusive ways. What I'm saying is that the mode of observance of the festival is exclusionary. I object to this not because Valentines Day is special but because all of our society's major festivals, with the exception of national holidays, are drifting in that direction. We live in a society that is erecting new barriers to entry for participating in major festivals (Christmas, Thanksgiving) and increasingly promoting existing festivals that have entry barriers (Valentine's Day).Well, attacking your holiday is one part of the process by which I'm trying to do that .No argument here. I think we should do more to honour Saint Christopher. 9' tall 250-year old dog-headed mean who can't speak deserve much more recognition.Same here. I was just taking you at your word when you claimed that the day had something to do with the Saint.

Ah, I see. Actually I was using the phrase St. Valentine's Day because I am old fashioned, not because of reason's of faith, and I was reacting more to the phrase 'created for commercial reasons', which, whether or not you wish to tie it to the Christian Saint Valentine it does not. So we are in part arguing while agreeing with each other. I was objecting to the idea of not giving it any purpose at all while you were objecting that it should not be tied to faith. Fair enough.

I do not in any way feel that it should be divided up by faith, but rather should be a celebration of romance, whatever the form. For that matter Easter is also a celebration of some of those same pagan festivals. Oester, Easter, Astarte, Asherah, or Ishtar was one of the most widespread godesses ever. (As the similarity of names indicates.) Groundhog day may also be in there somewhere, which is why I mentioned it, though it is not groundhogs in the original form.

The Auld Grump

 

[Blue_Kryptonite]

I was going to post in defense of a holiday dedicated to romance, which I am quite aware is alive and well after twenty years of marriage to a woman who still dances softly with me to no music in random areas of our home.

However, I got reminded of eighteen years of running out to hunt for just the right package of little carboard things I could make at home for a nickle, but the kids just have to keep up...

So its a draw.

 

[The Shaman]

I was going to post in defense of a holiday dedicated to romance, which I am quite aware is alive and well after twenty years of marriage to a woman who still dances softly with me to no music in random areas of our home.

However, I got reminded of eighteen years of running out to hunt for just the right package of little carboard things I could make at home for a nickle, but the kids just have to keep up...

So its a draw.

Sorry, but I'd call that "no contest."