Extra Spell = Any Spell List?

[Merlion]

the Wizard couldn't take Flame Strike, because Flame Strike is Divine, and not Arcane

Not quite. Spells arent actually Arcane or Divine. Or they are, but what they are isnt determined by the spell, but by the caster. So Cure Light Wounds isnt a Divine spell. Its just a spell. When a Cleric casts it, its a Divine Spell. When a Bard casts it, its an Arcane spell.


Although I find that whole mess silly and competely remove Divine/Arcane when I run games.



I see no reason why Extra Spell shouldnt be able to grant spells from other lists, in a usable fashion. Of course I think theres a number of spells that should be on the Wiz/Sor list already that arent..

 

[TheGogmagog]

It Might add the spell to your class list... It seems it's vague enough that that's what they meant. IF it does, here's the problem:

Cure Light Wounds, Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Drd 1, Healing 1, Pal 1, Rgr 2
So a sorcerer learns the spell.... Does the sor/wiz get it at 1st, 2nd, or higher?
That Must be decided by the DM and not assumed to be 1st level.

So like any new spell, it's up to the DM to determine IF it's possible and what level the effect is.

 

[Thanee]

It Might add the spell to your class list... It seems it's vague enough that that's what they meant.

I don't really see what's vague there... it doesn't say anything about adding to your class list.

That's not vague at all. It's simply not there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

I just had a converstation where it came up as to weather or not the Extra Spell feat that allows you to get a new spell known (or add a new spell to your spellbook) is limited to your classes spell list or not. It specifically cites that wizards can use it to get a spell they normally wouldent be able to research, however is this a case of allowing a specialist wizard to learn another spell in one of their banned schools or would this allow wizard to learn something like a Cure Spell or similar? It does require a feat to get and the spell in question must be of a level less than the highest level spell you can cast. But is this enough to allow it to choose from any spell list?

It was clarified by some author directly that Extra Spell doesn't allow to learn spells from other class lists. The feat anyway was designed for Sorcerers (as mentioned in a couple of books that Wizards have little benefits from it), to slightly increase their known spells.

It's a nasty topic however, because the vague rules about "researching spells" do not forbid to step on another class' toes. For example it's totally up to the DM to (dis)allow a wizards to research a healing spell. A DM who allows that may also allow to use this feat to just learn a cleric spell.

So far I haven't been asked to allow this, and in fact here Extra Spell has been taken only a couple of times by Sorcerers only. With the level restriction it's not even a powerful feat, only moderately useful.

 

[cmanos]

I take it as a feat for sorcerers to increase the number of spells known. I see it as a pretty good waste of a feat for a wizard.

 

[Thia Halmades]

Li Shenron is backing what I was saying before; there is a strict line between Divine & Arcane magic, however (HOWEVER...) I will yield that the line blurs based on casting style (Bard Arcane) and spell selection (CLW). I've considered making a Divine Bard and giving them a whole new spell selection, but that's a separate argument.

Ultimately it's a question of the list; what spells can a Wizard know? List. What spells can a Sorc know? Same list. If a Bard took this, they'd pick a spell from the Bard list. I maintain (although I may be on a tangent here) that a Wizard could use this to break out from their Prohibition and select a prohibited school spell. A Feat is worth that. But that's me.

LCpt. Thia Halmades

 

[Zephyrus]

An alternate Example of what came up in the conversation that prompted the question was.

Warmage using Extra Spell to take Invisbility (an Illusion Spell and thus not something a warmage can take via Advanced Learning).

My personal stance is that it (Extra Spell) needs to be a spell on the class spell list. That the reference for Wizards is in the event of a Specialist Wizard that gets banned schools.

My friend's stance is that it (Extra Spell) can bridge spell lists and can be 'any' spell provided its of the appropriate spell level, citing that the cost of a feat and that the chosen spell is not of the highest level castable is sufficient a penalty to be able to break spell list limits.

(*wishes he had set up a Poll*)

 

[Thanee]

So essentially, your friend thinks it's fine to house rule it different, while you think it works the way you say. Both of you can be right in that case, actually.

However, let me point out, that spells from the prohibited school should technically be treated as removed from the class list and thus cannot be learned with Extra Spell either.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Borlon]

The "wizards don't cast cure spells" is enough of a sacred cow that I don't think any WotC product would allow it. There is arcane (wizard) healing, but it is strange, complex, and/or indirect. Vampiric Touch and limited wish and the like.

I don't think that a simple feat like Extra Spell would allow a wizard to take a feat from the cleric spell list. Any interpretation that would allow it is, in my view, mistaken. I think Thanee is right and it is intended for Sorcerers to use, and so is a very weak feat for a wizard. Possibly useful when research funds are limited, or maybe if the DM rules that rare spells (e.g. not found in the PHB) cannot be obtained with the 2 free spells per level. Or something along those lines.

Following this interpretation, Warmages couldn't use it to get illusion spells, and specialist wizards couldn't use it to get banned spells. They can only get spells on their spell list. I would think that an archivist could get any spell that appears on a divine spell list, though.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The "wizards don't cast cure spells" is enough of a sacred cow that I don't think any WotC product would allow it.

Except for the Arcane Disciple feat, of course.

-Hyp.