Extra Spell Feat from Complete Arcane

[Thanee]

Personally, IMO, the text in question is flavour text. I see no problem, however, with allowing the "expanded knowledge" usage. I wouldn't go so far to say that any other interpretation but my own is a "house rule".

I would. The text says exactly nothing about allowing the learning of non-wizard spells. Why should it allow it?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

After all, now I think that it's absolutely unlikely that WotC planned to change the feat, and as such it doesn't allow to learn a spell from another class list.

At the same time, I think the 3.0 version is very weak for the cost of a feat and needed a boost (in fact, I was hoping that at least they'd have increased it to a spell of your max level). Same for Extra Slot (I hoped it was changed either by increasing it in the same way, or better by letting the slot migrate to higher level), which I bet it's also unchanged.

So I guess it's perfectly safe to assume WotC would have been clear if it wanted it to allow spells from other classes. The feat doesn't. The feat still sucks (even for Sorcerers, at least after a few levels). CArc had lost the opportunity to make it worthwhile
I don't know if allowing spells from other lists would have been too much, definitely it would have been interesting, but probably also easy to abuse in specific circumstances.

 

[Thanee]

Hey, with Assay Resistance it is probably better than Spell Resistance and Greater Spell Resistance together from 10th level onward (for sorcerers at least).

Bye
Thanee

 

[irdeggman]

Maybe the feat is just intended for specialist wizards to gain access back to a spell in a school they gave up? This would make the spell gained both a wizard spell and one that they normally could not learn.

Aha - that fits the text pretty much exactly and still keeps with the the spell must still be on the class spell list requisite for learning spells. Good one.

 

[glass]

Maybe the feat is just intended for specialist wizards to gain access back to a spell in a school they gave up? This would make the spell gained both a wizard spell and one that they normally could not learn.

Aha - that fits the text pretty much exactly and still keeps with the the spell must still be on the class spell list requisite for learning spells. Good one.

Except that if you are a specialist wizard, spells from your barred school are explicitly not on your spell list.

FWIW, I think that if they meant for casters to choose from other casters lists, they should have said so. OTOH, if they didn't, they should not have implied it. Either way, I think it is a poorly written feat.

As for the question of cross list selections, their is a precedent for it (domain granting PrCs), so I'd probably allow (probably with approval on a case by case basis).

glass.

 

[Thanee]

As for the question of cross list selections, their is a precedent for it (domain granting PrCs), so I'd probably allow (probably with approval on a case by case basis).

Or the Arcane Disciple feat.

It's definitely possible to obtain some divine spells as an arcane caster, but in those cases the rules also say so (i.e. Arcane Disciple specifically mentions, that the spells are added to your class list).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Abstraction]

For just a comparison, the Arcane Disciple adds a spell of every spell level to your class list (but not necessarily to your known spells as a spontaneous caster). Contemplate that with the Healing domain! It has some minor restrictions attached, but those are flavor restrictions. Using that feat as a rule of thumb, I think Extra Spell should allow a spell from, basically, any source.

 

[The Madhatter]

For just a comparison, the Arcane Disciple adds a spell of every spell level to your class list (but not necessarily to your known spells as a spontaneous caster). Contemplate that with the Healing domain! It has some minor restrictions attached, but those are flavor restrictions. Using that feat as a rule of thumb, I think Extra Spell should allow a spell from, basically, any source.

I read Arcane Disciple too and I do think the intention of Extra Spell is to allow a character to cross class lists. Of course there is no caveat saying they can use another class list's spells, but neither is there a caveat saying they can't. Feats do seem to be all about breaking every rule in the PHB. I think we may have to wait for the errata for an "official" ruling.

 

[Thanee]

I read Arcane Disciple too and I do think the intention of Extra Spell is to allow a character to cross class lists.

Well, we can only guess at the intention, but I am fairly sure that you are wrong there.

Besides Arcane Disciple has more than some "flavor restrictions". Being able to cast each spell only once per day is a rather heavy restriction, especially for spontaneous casters. Because of this the feat is next to worthless for sorcerers for example. It's still nice for wizards of course.

The opposite is true for Extra Spell. Nice for sorcerers. Worthless for wizards.

Seems fair, or not?

Of course there is no caveat saying they can use another class list's spells, but neither is there a caveat saying they can't.

Actually, there is...

- The PHB rules say you cannot learn spells from other classes lists.
- The feat does not change those rules.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Chun-tzu]

For just a comparison, the Arcane Disciple adds a spell of every spell level to your class list (but not necessarily to your known spells as a spontaneous caster). Contemplate that with the Healing domain! It has some minor restrictions attached, but those are flavor restrictions.

Besides the restriction that Thanee pointed out, there's the pretty hefty restriction of the Wisdom requirement. Few wizards or sorcerers have a high Wisdom score, and it takes considerable resources to boost your Wisdom high enough to cast high-level divine spells. Arcane Disciple enables arcane spellcasters to cast divine spells, but the feat is only part of the cost.