Extra Spell

[takasi]

In any event I pointed out where the text could be misleading.

Does anyone actually think the FAQ contradicts the feat description?

 

[EyeontheMountain]

In any event I pointed out where the text could be misleading.

Does anyone actually think the FAQ contradicts the feat description?

The text is not clear, but I do not think it is misleading. In this case the FaQ has clarified the unclear text, but only conradicted those who tried to get the most out of the feat.

 

[Mort]

If we are going to get into semantics: Extra spell says you can "learn" an extra spell. You can only cast spells from your allowed spell list - so whether extra spell allows a spell of your list is irrelevant because you can't cast it.
Note both the warmage (CA) and begauiler (PHB II) with their respective special abilities, say you can "add a spell to your existing list", which is very different language and should be the language looked at. Because the feat is in the same book as the warmage, yet does not expressly allow adding the spell to your class spell list, that implies it does not. The FAQ merely clarifies this.

Regardless - think of it this way. Not allowing a spell off your class list with this feat is clear simple and does not lead to any complications. Allowing a spell off your class list, leads to all sorts of questions and rules problems. Even if it was ambiguous, simpler is usually better.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Yep, it could be clearer. I wouldn't call it bad, there certainly are worse ones out there (metamagic rods, anyone ), but it is a little misleading.

BTW, if you are looking for feats, that let you hit better, try Arcane Strike (should be possible for the Duskblade to use that one). Not at your current level, though.

Bye
Thanee

Metamagic rods seem to be your nemesis. Yes the need an errata update as well.

 

[wildstarsreach]

If we are going to get into semantics: Extra spell says you can "learn" an extra spell. You can only cast spells from your allowed spell list - so whether extra spell allows a spell of your list is irrelevant because you can't cast it.
Note both the warmage (CA) and begauiler (PHB II) with their respective special abilities, say you can "add a spell to your existing list", which is very different language and should be the language looked at. Because the feat is in the same book as the warmage, yet does not expressly allow adding the spell to your class spell list, that implies it does not. The FAQ merely clarifies this.

Regardless - think of it this way. Not allowing a spell off your class list with this feat is clear simple and does not lead to any complications. Allowing a spell of your class list, leads to all sorts of questions and rules problems. Even if it was ambiguous, simpler is usually better.

Whereas I would like a broader interpretation, my DM, not Takasi in this case has ruled differently. Yes as a general rule, simplier is better but I can't help myself.

 

[dagger]

Here's the problem if a duskblade had wraithstrike vs an Eldritch knight.

Both take the round to charge a touch spell. The round they strike, they swift cast wraithstrike. This the the casting of one spell per round. Then they full attack. Both have somparable attacks and spells. If you swift cast the wraithstrike, then you are not arcane channeling a spell.

Huh?


A duskblade at 13th level with Wrathstrike and a full attack channel is not meant to be.

 

[Rhun]

Wow that is just a ... sad way of thinking.. hell you could interpret cleave to give you a free melee attack if you kill someone with a bow, because it doesnt state that you need to deal enough damage to drop it below 0 with a melee attack.. Besides, unless a feat SPECIFICALLY states you can break/bend another rule.. you cannot and since the feat doesnt state you can cast spells from outside or you class list. You cannot, otherwise there would be no point in other rules if you could just 'interpret' around them.

Cleave: If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round.
[SIZE]

I don't know about it being a sad way of thinking, but yes, the DM can interpret the rules just about any way he wants. Rule 0. And being an "Old School" DM, I've never had to worry or argue with somebody about the interpretation of a rule. After all, its my world, its my interpretation.

As far as Cleave goes, it could definitely be written better. However, since it specifically says you get to make an extra melee attack with the same weapon used to drop the previous creature, cleaving with a bow is not possible. You cannot make a melee attack with a bow, so this is specifically not allowed.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Huh?


A duskblade at 13th level with Wrathstrike and a full attack channel is not meant to be.

Yes, it is not meant to be. Do you think that you could cast two spells in one round. He swift actions a wraithstrike, and the casts as part of a full attack through arcane channeling a second spell. No, I think not. I'll admit that the rules and opinions are against me but this from that standpoint is not as broken as stated by others.

However, I was talking to Takasi and we worked out that at 11th level where the duskblade would have this and 3 attacks, it is possible to really pervert this since the BA is full.

Power Attack +11 dam x2 for 2-handed weapon
+5 Str x1.5 (Enlarged)
+2 weapon
Holy enhancement +2d6 vs evil creatures
+1d6 elemental damage

22+6+7+4=39+2d6 for longsword enlarged = 46pts average per hit

+8 to hit with magic/weapon focus/str

With touch AC being generally low, 3 attacks at 11th level makes this likely to do on average about a 140 pts of damage.

This would be on top of any additional touch spells that were currently up and inflicted.

I hadn't thought about this and withdraw my want but it is evil in a good way.

 

[Thanee]

You cannot make a melee attack with a bow...

Elves can!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm taking the 3rd or 4th poll option!

IMHO, the feat is not drafted clearly enough- as is, either interpretation is an equally valid reading...so this is right where the FAQ comes to our rescue.

Then why do I not vote on the poll? Because my various DMs are split on the issue- some think the FAQ is garbage here, some are perfectly at ease with it.

Essentially, my vote is: "It allows whatever my DM says it allows."

Personally, I trend towards the broadest reading of "lacks access to" and "unable to research," and would probably run my campaigns allowing spellcasters to add spells outside of their list via this feat.

To answer the question of "which level" would such a spell be if it existed on multiple lists, my answer would be "the highest level." Furthermore, the PC could not learn the spell if its nominal level is higher than the PC's highest possible class spell level (IOW- the PC is from a class that doesn't have full casting ability, so doesn't have 9 spell levels from which to choose, and thus, cannot add 9th level spells).