Extreme Skill check

[Avatar of the North]

Ok we've seen a preview of what the epic level book has in store for skill use. What i'm starting this thread for is to see what some of you think the extreme dcs should let you do for certain skills.

How about we start with Alchemy, Diplomacy, Spot, & Listen

Alchemy
DC for Turning lead to gold.

Diplomacy
DC for convincing someone that they are wrong in their faith and it is actually a bunch of lies and thus should (immediately) convert to a different got

Spot
See through objects maybe?
Pierce illusions (as varying degrees of spells)

Listen
Hear through solid walls
Hear across planes

 

[S'mon]

IMO it should be remembered that all skill uses are non-magical and no level of skill should be allowed to 'suspend reality' in the way that spells, special class powers, and perhaps even Feats can. So, no player can ever browbeat me as GM into letting their PC with 100 ranks in Persuasion skill to convert a Solar from LG to CE - at least, not without a hell of a lot of good roleplaying and some in-game hooks to work with. IMO no skill check should ever suspend GM judgement. Often I don't roll for skill checks - I look at the PC (including skill ranks), & the NPC, factor in the roleplaying and decide whether the attempt should realistically succeed or fail.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I'd allow the persuasion of a solar or even turning lead into gold but I would never allow someone to see through walls. I agree with S'mon that a skill check never can 'suspend reality' even though we see it differently from there. It is possible to reason with a sentient being and it is possible to turn lead into gold, even though the process is more expensive than the actual gold created. No one, however, can see through an opaque wall. I like the idea of extreme skill checks.

 

[hong]

IMO it should be remembered that all skill uses are non-magical and no level of skill should be allowed to 'suspend reality' in the way that spells, special class powers, and perhaps even Feats can.

Have a look at some of the "extreme tumbling" rules in OA. It seems clear that a +50 bonus in a skill is supposed to be a license to suspend reality.

 

[Ruvion]

OA's tumbling applies partly to suspending reality. Although very hard to believe, extreme tumbling creates the Wuxia style of martial prowess perfectly. Nothing magical at all.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Since DCs from 50+ are only in a believable Range with Epic Levels Characters, I do not see a problem with Skills superseeding "realitity".
If you gain levels in this region, you are probably some how "supernatural" (compare it to a Monk of 20th level!) ...

 

[Crothian]

I'd at least put prerequiste on these abilities, Skill Focus. By the time you have +40 to a roll you should have more then a few feats. Skill Focus is a dedication to a skill and that should allow you to do more witha skill then without it.

So with spot it would be: With Skill Focus Spot the user can attempt to see through solid objects. This is a full round action. For each half inch he is trying to see through apply a penalty depending on the substance.

colored glass: -10
Wood: -20
Stone: -25
Metal -30

After the modifier is applied, and positive number determines that you are successfully looking through the object. Example: Eagle Eye Earl is trying to look through one inch of wood to find a good place to teleport to. Earl rolls a 54. He applies -40 to the roll (-20 for each half inch of wood) and results in a 14. He successfully sees through the wall and notices the room is full of 50 Pit Fiends. Earld decides not to teleport in.

 

[-Eä-]

I completely agree with Simon and Frostmarrow: High ranks should not suspend the reality, whatever that is in the world spoken of, but high ranks in a skill should allow for what may seem to be supernatural in that world.

That is, I would probably allow a person to see through walls, as most of the wall is in fact nothing at all... There is a lot of distance between nuclei and other nuclei and nuclei and electrons, so one could argue that it is possible to see through a solid wall, you only need to know how to (which reflects the high spot check). The difficulty class should, however in my opinion be about 200, as the technique and focus to do so is probably arcane, but one could make a magic item that gives an enormous bonus to spot checks...

That being said, whaqt do you think about high ranks in, for instance, appraise, search and use rope?

 

[Crothian]

A high Appraise will allow you to accurately determine worth of item It would also give you insight on the creatar by noticing certain things in the object. You might be able to deduce the objects function, learn it's a age, determine what race created it, discover forgery.

A high search allows you to track as is limited by the search skill. I'm not sure what else it'd allow you to do.

Use Rope: Tie some damned impressive knots.

 

[S'mon]

That is, I would probably allow a person to see through walls, as most of the wall is in fact nothing at all... There is a lot of distance between nuclei and other nuclei and nuclei and electrons, so one could argue that it is possible to see through a solid wall, you only need to know how to (which reflects the high spot check).

The pseudoscience explanation makes no sense: there may be a lot of space in a stone wall, but what matters for vision is that light (photons) can't penetrate it from the far side. Therefore you can't see through it without magic.