Familiars... what would you want in a supplement about them?

[jaldaen]

I would like to see detailed discussion on ways to handle familiars in game so that they are a benefit instead of an extra headache for the DM.

I think I will be able to pull that off ;-)

Jaldaen

 

[jaldaen]

See the rules in Spells and Spellcraft.

I would want something compatable with that.

Also something compatable with the rules in Tome and Blood and the Kalamar Player's Guide.

I'll see what i can do... sound like its time to pick up a few books and get some research in ;-)

Most of all I would want a meta system that breaks apart the familiars in the player's handbook and shows why and how to determine which ones get what special ability and which don't.

Now that I could probably pull off ;-)

Lastly... I want a monkey familiar.

Seems so logical yet nobody has published it.

FFG even did a picture of it in their familiars section yet never put in stats.

Monkey familiar... check!

Thanks for the great suggestions!
Jaldaen

 

[Kichwas]

Oh, one more thing.


When writing all of your flavor sections do some research.

Get an old occult book or fairy tale book.

Not a real occult book but one of those books the Inquisition types wrote about the occult...

That's where you'll find the historical stuff that inspired the idea of familiars.

Real occultists don't really have familiars; but they do tend to attract cats as cats can sense it when people work the occult.

 

[Blacksad]

May I expand on some things that I would like to see?

64 pages?

1 page of credits/bibliography (you should check cute and fuzzy seizure monster for BESM from guardian of order, it isn't rule heavy at all), 2 for OGL/d20 license and ads, that leave you with 61 pages?
Have you thought about using a similar format (font size and editing) as the spell chapter in the PHB? That might allow you to increase the word count.

Personnaly as a DM, I do not make a lot of difference between animals companions, intelligent objects, familiar or mount, ie I tend to give them some quirck that make them cute (a white tiger that chew any thief that enter in the wizard lab, an intelligent warhammer that count gold piece and detect gems for the dwarf fighter, a black tiger for a paladin mount, and a cat that is the black tiger friend as the familiar for or wizard/rogue), and due to 2nd edition, I tend to make rules when I need them.

Contrary to my player, when I'm a PC, I don't like animal companions, so you might want to cover what a character can get by not having a familiar (perhaps imbue an object/weapon with ability similar to a familiar/psi crystal?). But I do like to DM player with animals (or other things) companions.

That's why I think you should refocus the books on every kinds of companions without free-will (mechanicaly speaking, a paladin mount or wizard familiar and some intelligent items are suposed to obey every orders, while a follower obtained through the leadership feat does have a free-will).

Also on a commercial aspect, a wizard/sorcerer player is more likely to buy Tome&Blood or the latest spellbook than a familiar handbook (most after 1st level have already chosen a familiar and tend to keep it due to Xp cost), so while you should keep it player friendly as many options within it will be seen by players, I think the book should be adressed to DM, and a DM isn't likely to buy a product only focused on one PC in the group (if they have the standard array of character fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue), and if it is non-standard (paladin, ranger, druid, sorcerer) the extended focus of the book will appeal to more DM.

Another thing you might want to do is to create (or discuss) the rules in the House rules forum (like Wild Spellcraft and the Imortal Handbook), that way you'll be sure that your rules seems nice to other people than your gaming group and yourself.

 

[Neo]

May I expand on some things that I would like to see?

Personnaly as a DM, I do not make a lot of difference between animals companions, intelligent objects, familiar or mount, ie I tend to give them some quirck that make them cute (a white tiger that chew any thief that enter in the wizard lab, an intelligent warhammer that count gold piece and detect gems for the dwarf fighter, a black tiger for a paladin mount, and a cat that is the black tiger friend as the familiar for or wizard/rogue), and due to 2nd edition, I tend to make rules when I need them.

Contrary to my player, when I'm a PC, I don't like animal companions, so you might want to cover what a character can get by not having a familiar (perhaps imbue an object/weapon with ability similar to a familiar/psi crystal?). But I do like to DM player with animals (or other things) companions.

That's why I think you should refocus the books on every kinds of companions without free-will (mechanicaly speaking, a paladin mount or wizard familiar and some intelligent items are suposed to obey every orders, while a follower obtained through the leadership feat does have a free-will).

Also on a commercial aspect, a wizard/sorcerer player is more likely to buy Tome&Blood or the latest spellbook than a familiar handbook (most after 1st level have already chosen a familiar and tend to keep it due to Xp cost), so while you should keep it player friendly as many options within it will be seen by players, I think the book should be adressed to DM, and a DM isn't likely to buy a product only focused on one PC in the group (if they have the standard array of character fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue), and if it is non-standard (paladin, ranger, druid, sorcerer) the extended focus of the book will appeal to more DM.

Another thing you might want to do is to create (or discuss) the rules in the House rules forum (like Wild Spellcraft and the Imortal Handbook), that way you'll be sure that your rules seems nice to other people than your gaming group and yourself.

Not sure i'd agree with some of these points, as someone who has played Wizards pretty much non stop in some form for the last 22 years, if there is one thing i love and those i know enjoy it's familiars, constructs, summonings and all manner of things that a Wizard can control.... and i would gladly buy a book on familiars in preference to a book on spells of which there are dozens already....because it's a more specialised area to cover and thus of far more interest.

In my games companions, pets, mounts, familiars the whole lot get individal single one or two sided A4 sheets that i keep and use (except mount sheets, the players get those ). I like them detailed and interesting and ways of making them unique from gear, abilities to roleplay... and atm the variation in say one 10th level wizards toad familiar between the next 10th level wizards toad familiar is minimal. It's a topic beginning for a supplement, almost as much as the other untapped niches such as Domain building and running from business to kingdom up... these topics do need covering if only by a single sourcebook. the amount is unimportant but someone, somewhere, sometime does need to expand on them and give us a little bit more <chuckle>

 

[jaldaen]

I would love to see something on WHY a mage would want or need a familiar. It must be more than to get a magical pet. Does it help with his understanding of magic? Improve research? Protect him from demons? Shine his shoes? (I know the first 2 are nearly useless to a sorcerer.)
And what is the relationship between mage and familiar? Master and slave (and which is which?) Partners? One soul?
What are the drawbacks for having a familiar? (a strength 7 wizard hauling around a 10-pound bag of Kitty Litter comes to mind)

You bring up some good points that I hope to address with the supplement...

Thanks,
Jaldaen

 

[jaldaen]

Those spell (and psi ability) might interest you

Perhaps you should ask Green Ronin how many soul they sold to WotC to be able to quote T&B in Secret College of Necromancy

and perhaps you'll be able to print those spell (curently they exist only online).

for the increase in ability, you should look at the nemuranai in Magic of Rokugan, or the samurai ability in OA/Rokugan (use Xp to improve the thing).

you could extand that for familiar with level

I will definately have to look into these...

For Tiger as familiar, do you plan to use an improved familiar feat, or something similar to paladin mount (dealy the time when you get the familiar, and have familar abilities several level lower) or both?

Hmmm... I'm still debating that myself... seeing as this is in the planning stage I'll be taking the time to go through a couple possiblities... from feats to spells to delayed summoning... perhaps even something else entirely ;-)

Jaldaen

 

[Quickbeam]

I agree with Thalmin and Neo -- the supplement will be addressing a niche that is certain to find a fair amount of interest, and this material should cover the nature and evolution of the mage/familiar relationship.

 

[jaldaen]

I think if you look back at the Dragon Issue that covered familiars that included different feats and spells related to them like Token Familiar, Construct familiar etc.... that is the kind of things i would be looking for.

Hmmm I'll have to see if I can find that and take a look...

As well as ways of improving them further, increasing the bond, varying the benefits, having a greater selection of familiars to choose from.

I will definately be doing this ;-)

rules for obtaining more potent familiars... i personally don;t like Improved Familiar feat in how it works as all it does is something which could easily be done through roleplay anyway so why someone should sacrifice a feat for it seems a little off.

To be honest I don't like it either... so I'm going to try to come up with something else...

some new and original familiars in the supplement too would be good, as would gear and equipment for them, rules on care, magic items for familiars and a familiar woksheet and character sheet.

These are all on my list of things to do ;-)

Thanks,
Jaldaen

 

[Blacksad]

Not sure i'd agree with some of these points, as someone who has played Wizards pretty much non stop in some form for the last 22 years, if there is one thing i love and those i know enjoy it's familiars, constructs, summonings and all manner of things that a Wizard can control.... and i would gladly buy a book on familiars in preference to a book on spells of which there are dozens already....because it's a more specialised area to cover and thus of far more interest.

But curently, the focus of the book is familiar, and only familiar, (as the soon to be author has said) while Tome & Blood has info on improved familiar, familiar for caster of size other than small or medium, spell to heal construct, updated magic items creation rules, improved summoning feat (and new spell and prestiges classes, but you already knew that), if you hadn't T&B (which I suppose you have), which one will you buy? I would like to see expanded info on familiar, but I would like to see the book without a 2 year delay, because the publisher thought that the new rules on familiar in book x (I suppose we will see some info on imp & quasit in the tome of vile darkness), lessen the interest of the book on familiar, and the author had to find another publisher.

I agree that player enjoy it, but player spend less than the DM on RPG, even if they buy more than the PHB, and as a DM myself, if it is only on familiar I'll wait to see review on it (a book only on construct, like the one from mongose has more interest, as monster could be used in adventures featuring any adventurers).

In my games companions, pets, mounts, familiars the whole lot get individal single one or two sided A4 sheets that i keep and use (except mount sheets, the players get those ). I like them detailed and interesting and ways of making them unique from gear, abilities to roleplay... and atm the variation in say one 10th level wizards toad familiar between the next 10th level wizards toad familiar is minimal. It's a topic beginning for a supplement, almost as much as the other untapped niches such as Domain building and running from business to kingdom up... these topics do need covering if only by a single sourcebook. the amount is unimportant but someone, somewhere, sometime does need to expand on them and give us a little bit more <chuckle>

Well, I tend to do A4 (or half that) sheets for companions (the white tiger even got a class of his own so it's more a two-sided A4 for this one), but I prefer to let the player keep them (otherwise it is no more their own pet, and it would be another NPC), also the difference between 2 toad familiar is huge, considering that familiar use the base skill of their master, and that wizard tend to have high int bonus, I can't see them having the same skills (and a monkey familiar might be helpful in alchemy with the aid another rule).

edit: jaldaen, I think you should open a house rule familar thread in the house rule forum, otherwise I would be OT, if I posted ideas for class alteration to run a pokemon-like campaign , I would like to see someone write such a book as I wouldn't like to do it myself (I don't like comming with new rules in my game that haven't been playtested).