Fantasy Concepts: An OGL Fantasy Saga Project

[tsadkiel]

Could the OGC Ironborn fill the Warforged niche?

I've always liked them very much, so if you stick them in the book I'll be happy.

 

[Dalamar]

I don't think I can fully endorse the idea of races having "Choose Your Racial Ability". I like the idea of Racial Talent Trees, but something just rubs me the wrong way with the idea of choosing one of them as a racial ability; I'd give an Elf the usual ability score changes, Low-Light Vision (the Saga version), Iron Will and Heightened Awareness, with a new ability Weapon Training: An elf adds Weapon Focus (longsword etc.) to the list of bonus feats for all of his classes.

Regarding the specific talents, I don't like the name of Unclouded Vigilance, though the effect is a good choice. The ability itself could thematically be subsumed by Iron Will, though.
Preternatural Senses I'm not sure about. I don't think gaining a feat is quite strong enough for a Talent. I could be wrong, of course, and Preternatural Senses might be a strong feat with strict Prerequisites.
Eternal Vigilance, in the form of Low-light Vision and Heightened Awareness, should really be a part of the core package of being an elf, I think.
I have no strong feelings one way or another regarding Improved Vigilance itself, though for an unexplicable reason I would prefer the +5 of Saga instead of the +4 common in DnD.
Elvish Weapons I would integrate to the racial features as I mentioned above.
Ancient Knowledge could be a good talent choice, though I wouldn't use it if you decide to use the two ability score increases every 4 levels from Saga.

 

[HeinorNY]

Another tweak you can add to this conversion is to create Racial Class Skills. Just a couple of skills each race can pick at character creation or with Skill Training feat.
Elves: Perception, Spellcraft, knowledge (elves)
Dwarves: Craft, endurance, knowledge (dwarves)
Halfings: Stealth, Jump, etc
just an idea, though prolly the Conditional Feat may be a better way to adress the cultural background.

 

[Flynn]

Take a look at this thread, some guys (myself included) made some racial conversions.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=873983

I'm going to post your conversions here for others to review and comment on. Please note that there are a few core races missing here (gnomes, half-elves):

Humans

* Medium Size: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
* Speed: Human base land speed is 6 squares.
* Bonus Feat: 1 extra feat at 1st level.
* Bonus Trained Skill: 1 additional trained skill at 1st level. This skill must be chosen from the character's list of class skills.
* Automatic Language: Common.

Dwarves

* Ability Modifiers: +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma
* Medium: As Medium creatures, dwarves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
* Speed: Dwarf base land speed is 4 squares.
* Darkvision: Dwarves ignore concealment from darkness, including total concealment. However, they cannot perceive colors in total darkness.
* Stonecunning: Dwarves may choose to reroll any Perception check to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn't stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A dwarf can use the Perception skill to find stonework traps even if he is untrained. A dwarf can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as a human can sense which way is up.

This needs to have a note that states that the result of the second roll must be accepted, even if it's lower than the first roll.

* Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves with Weapon Proficiency (Martial Weapons) also gains Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dwarven waraxes) and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Dwarven Urgoshes).
* Stability: A dwarf may choose to reroll any check to avoid being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground), keeping the better of the two results.
* Resistance: Dwarves receive a +2 racial bonus to all defenses against poisons and spells.
* Hatred: Dwarves get a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids.
* Giant Fighting: Dwarves receive a +5 dodge bonus to their reflex defense against attacks from monsters of the giant type. Any time a creature loses its Dexterity bonus (if any) to Reflex Defense, such as when it's caught flat-footed, it loses its dodge bonus, too.
* Conditional Bonus Feat: Any dwarf with Craft as a trained skill gains Skill Focus (Craft) as a bonus feat.
* Automatic Languages: Common and Dwarven.

Elves

* Ability Modifiers:+2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution. Elves are agile but not particularly resilient.
* Medium Size: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
* Speed: Elf base land speed is 6 Squares.
* Sleep Immunity: Immunity to magic sleep effects.
* Resistance: Elves gain a +2 racial bonus to defense against enchantment spells or effects.
* Low-Light Vision: Elves ignore concealment (but not total concealment) from darkness.
* Weapon Proficiency: Elves gain Weapon Proficiency (bows) and Weapon Proficiency (swords).
* Weapon Familiarity: Elves with the Weapon Proficiency(martial weapons) feat are proficient with racial weapons of the elves as well.
* Perceptive: Elves may re-roll Perception checks when used to notice target or search.

This needs to have a note that states that the result of the second roll must be accepted, even if it's lower than the first roll.

* Automatic Languages: Common and Elven.

Half-Orcs

* Ability Modifiers:+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma. Half-orcs possess great physical power but aren't particularly witty or astute.
* Medium Size: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
* Speed: Half-orcs base land speed is 6 Squares.
* Darkvision: Half-orcs ignore concealment from darkness, including total concealment. However, they cannot perceive colors in total darkness.
* Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc.
* Automatic Languages: Common and Orc.

Halflings

* Ability Modifiers:+2 Dexterity, -2 Strength. Halflings are agile but somewhat weak.
* Small Size: As Small creatures, halflings gain +1 size bonus to their Reflex Defense and +5 size bonus on Stealth checks. However their lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
* Speed: Halflings base land speed is 4 Squares.
* Resistance: Halflings gain a +1 racial bonus to all Defenses and a +2 morale bonus to their Defenses against fear spells or effects.
* Athletic: Halflings may choose to take 10 on Jump and Climb skills even when distracted or threatened.
* Sneaky: Halflings may choose to reroll any Stealth checks, but the result of the reroll must be accepted even if it is worse.
* Expert Thrower: Halflings gain +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons and slings.
* Automatic Languages: Common and Halfling.

Hope that helps,
Flynn

 

[EditorBFG]

Dunno. I think instead of buying Elvish Weapon I would just get Weapon Focus, since I believe characters gain more feats than talents

We talked about these when we did our talent books for Modern, and the reason why we include talents that provide feats is just for flexibility. Sometimes, it would just be a great help to get a certain feat at 5th instead of 6th. Also, it is at times desirable to offer a means for certain characetr types to sidestep prereqs.

In the Modern stuff, we would put a talent providing a feat at the base of tree, with other talents requiring that feat rather than the first talent. For example, we did a series of Weapon Mastery talents requiring Weapon Focus. That way, whether the PC got the feat from a talent or a normal feat selection, they could still move up the tree.

In short, it's not an option everyone will use, but I think some will, and we prefer to offer the choice. It is better for someone to have an option and not need it than need an option and not have it.

Also, I think some of the Talents are standard Elven special abilities, considering a direct conversion of the races to the SAGA mechanics.

Well, yes, and here's why: My hope is to not have racial special abilities at all, except in the form of feats and talents.

This may be controversial, but part of the whole point is simplification. With this, a race description is much shorter and simpler. Here's an example:

Elf
+2 Dex, -2 Con
Bonus Racial Feats: Preternatural Senses, Trained Skill (Perception)
Elf Talents: You gain access to the Elf Talent Path. You receive a free talent from this Path at 1st level. Any time you receive a talent from a class, you may choose from the talents normally available to that class or from the Elf Talent Path.

So, since every elf gets Preternatural Senses as a free feat, the free talent all elves get at 1st level is Unclouded Vigilance. (The talent to gain Preternatural Senses is for half-elves, who gain access to the Elf talents as well, but different bonus feats.) Preternatural Senses includes the other elf special abilities-- the feat has hefty prerequisites for other races, but elves get it for free without meeting prereqs (bonus racial feats ignore prerequisites). So, elves have little choice about their first level special abilities, but gain the option of sharpening them up from the talents.

This simplifies race descriptions, and allows us to separate which abilities are cultural (feats) and which are natural (talents). Then you just put in a feat for being raised by another race, and if you have that, you trade your regular racial feats for another race's (and gain some social bonuses). I'm still figuring out Weapon Familiarities, but this covers everything else.

Does that make more sense?

Take a look at this thread, some guys (myself included) made some racial conversions.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=873983

What you could do is to give all elves the roll-again-get-second-result to Perception checks, and then the Talent would give the roll-again-keep-better-result mechanic.

Thanks for the link, and the suggestion, which I think we will use.

 

[EditorBFG]

I don't think I can fully endorse the idea of races having "Choose Your Racial Ability".

See my above post responding to ainatan, which hopefully answers this. The 1st talent is essentially chosen for you, it is not optional. Specializing in your races aptitudes, however, is.

Regarding the specific talents, I don't like the name of Unclouded Vigilance, though the effect is a good choice.

Yeah, I don't like it much, but it's what I could think of at the time. Some of the names are sort of placeholders until we think of something better. For now, it is better to get the mechanics down.

The ability itself could thematically be subsumed by Iron Will, though.

I'm not sure Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, or Great Fortitude should make the cut. Given that Saga-style saves go up 1 per level, I'm not sure a blanket 2-point bump is good-- for example, why would anyone not buy Lightning Reflexes?

Preternatural Senses I'm not sure about. I don't think gaining a feat is quite strong enough for a Talent. I could be wrong, of course, and Preternatural Senses might be a strong feat with strict Prerequisites.

Again, see the above post to ainatan.

Ancient Knowledge could be a good talent choice, though I wouldn't use it if you decide to use the two ability score increases every 4 levels from Saga.

Yeah, I'm not sure whether to use the two ability score bump or not.

 

[Flynn]

I'm not sure Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, or Great Fortitude should make the cut. Given that Saga-style saves go up 1 per level, I'm not sure a blanket 2-point bump is good-- for example, why would anyone not buy Lightning Reflexes?

These are no longer available as feats in Saga, but they are available as racial traits. Just an FYI here, my friend.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[Baron Opal]

As far as broad bonuses go (q.v. bless, bard's song) I would prefer that they be nonstackable bonuses of progressively higher bonuses. At first level, you cast bless, higher level is prayer, and at the top hero's feast. There would be no benefit for casting the together as the higher level effect would contain and subsume the lower level effects. The lower level ones would still be useful as minor boosts when the better ones were no longer available or if the party didn't want the full power-up.

However, an expanded condition tract that covered bonuses as well as penalties is an interesting idea. Bless could be effective as a delay poison. Would a sufficiently long duration endurance spell counter penalties to forced marches?

One of the complications that I forsee is the question of how generic a condition state becomes. Is the status of the condition track level more than short-term and persistant? At what point does it not matter whether or not you are down three steps from poison, disease or radiation and you have to crawl into the bacta tank? As I recall, anti-toxins and radiation cures are only effective in the short term; after that you are simply damaged and have to endure a bacta bath to recover. Or, convalesce for a significant time to restore your lost condition steps.

That could be a feature. The player has relativlely short window of time where he is required to keep tract of the damaging source of the persistant condition track loss. During that time he can utilize a relatively cheap method of restoration. After that window closes it can be cured quickly with some anodyne which is very expensive or difficult to obtain (bacta-analog) or slowly through natural healing.

 

[Mokona]

Character Race

This simplifies race descriptions, and allows us to separate which abilities are cultural (feats) and which are natural (talents).

Personally I'd do this the other way around where biological benefits are bonus feats or unique abilities (only when no feat is close enough). Then talent trees that let you "grow" into your race are for cultural development.

I do love the idea of breaking Level Adjustment +X (where X is greater than 0) into Talent trees even for semi-biological abilities. Drow are an especially good candidate for this treatment given their suite of abilities and popularity with players. Then a "Raised By Elves" feat gives you access to the cultural talent tree but not the racial/biological bonus feats (sort of like Force Sensitive for the race that raised you).

Of 17 races in Saga, most have a reroll (12 have it; keep the reroll even if lower) though some have it as part of a movement (swim or climb) package.

7 out of 17 have a Conditional Skill Focus bonus feat.

9 of 17 have one or more bonus feats (including Iron Will, Great Fortitude, and Conditional Weapon Proficiencies).

12 of 17 have any other bonus including Low-Light Vision, Darkvision, Rage, Water Breathing, Bellow, Scent, and various forms of Regenerate.

None of have a Conditional Skill Focus and a Bonus Feat and a Reroll and an other bonus.

 

[Mokona]

Class and Level Bonuses

Ancient Knowledge could be a good talent choice, though I wouldn't use it if you decide to use the two ability score increases every 4 levels from Saga.

The bonus to two different ability scores every 4 levels is an elegant solution in Saga. We should keep it. That way characters are encouraged to do more than just pour 100% of their stat bumps into their core ability. Spellcasters are especially helped to diversify because they can still bump their casting trait while doing other stuff too.

Saga damage bonus of +1 per 2 heroic levels? Yes.
Saga defense bonus of +1 per heroic level? Yes, and let fighters add their armor bonus to their level bonus (with Talents) like Wheel of Time d20 does.

-----
For the next section I assume only four (4) core 1st level classes, though I prefer more...

Class Bonuses to Defense
* Cleric - +1 ref, +1 fort, +1 will
* Expert - +2 ref, +1 will
* Fighter - +1 ref, +2 fort
* Wizard - +1 ref, +2 will

(By the way, Saga uses all five possible combinations if you restrict that every class must have at least +1 Reflex Defense. Without that requirement there are seven possible combinations in which the bonuses add up to +3.)

Hit Points
* Wizard - d6 + con bonus (12 + con bonus at first level)
* Cleric, Expert - d8 + con bonus (16 + con bonus at first level)
* Fighter - d10 + con bonus (20 + con bonus at first level)

(I chose two times max hit points at first level instead of three like Saga uses because weapons deal less damage in Dungeons & Dragons. Another way to deal with damage, that would also address Damage Thresholds, would be to scale up the damage of weapons in D&D.)

Base Attack Bonus
* Fighter - +1 per level
* Cleric, Expert, Wizard - +3 per 4 levels

(I didn't use +1 per 2 levels for Wizards because Condition Track penalties could quickly make it impossible for Wizards to hit.)

Class Skills
* Cleric - 3 + int bonus
* Expert - 6 + int bonus
* Fighter - 4 + int bonus
* Wizard - 5 + int bonus