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Farewell to thee D&D

A side note-

Here's why the wizard changed:

Damage per attack equals damage per target hit times number of targets hit.

Most characters hit one target at a time. But a wizard often hits multiple targets.

3e balanced the game on the assumption that a wizard would "spike" at times, and deal very high damage, while dealing lower damage at other times. This meant that the wizard was sort of an "ace in the hole" for the party- he was sub par at combat most fights, but could rock one or two per day. So that equation wasn't very important in 3e- if a wizard blasted ten foes with an attack even more powerful than the one launched by a fighter against a single foe, that was ok because the wizard couldn't do it very often, and the fighter could attack all the time.

That approach had positives and negatives. Positives were that it was fun to be the ace in the hole guy when it was time to blow stuff up. Negatives were that this sort of power balance was fragile and vulnerable to a lot of manipulation.

4e doesn't balance on a "balance across the course of a day" regime. Its balance is more round by round.

This means that a wizard who blasts multiple foes has to do lower damage per target than a fighter, or else he exponentially surpasses the fighter's damage as the number of targets increases.

The wizard's damage is still high, overall. Just recently our party wizard launched her first fireball- it did 17 damage per hit (3d6+7, rolled a 10, as close to average as you can roll without rolling a 3.5). But it hit three enemies and missed a fourth, for a net total of 59 damage. This was the most damaging single attack launched by any character in our entire campaign, and it didn't involve critical hits or high rolls.

If you're desire is for wizards who use mighty spells to devastate armies, well, you probably want 3.5s power distribution. On an aesthetic level, this one is very different. But if your overall concern is for whether wizards are powerful and can do lots of damage, believe me, they can. The math is on their side.
 

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When all the other players in your group are playing and liking the new edition, like the OP says, what are you supposed to do? Suck it up and play a game you can't stand? Create your own game in your preferred edition and sit alone at the table every Saturday night?



Because they can't play the game they want to play. Simple. Say you like 4th Edition, and it gets yanked away, how will you feel?

And folks KEEP talking about going and finding a new game, as if you can shop for a new group like going to the grocery store, or pick editions like picking apples off a tree. I'm lucky right now to have a 3.x game. If that game ended and every one walked away? I'd have no choice but to be in a 4.0 game with a bunch of kids, or have no game at all. What's so hard to understand about someone being upset about that?
That's a player problem, not a game problem. More importantly that's a social problem with that person not having the same goals as the rest of the players.
 

4E is WoW. If that's fun for you great. Not for me. Actual WoW does it better, so I have no reason to go to 4E for my WoW fix.


i no rite. last night I ran 4e and the one player showed up early and he was like omg wtf

so he wandered around my house yelling "LFG" but then every1 else showed

so they went out of the town and grinded on bears for awhile because they had that quest to kill 10 plus they were saving up for their mount

it wuz ez 2 dm I just kept putting the same minis on the board all night

at the end they were very close so decided to go /dance in ironwind for 20 min then we ended it, it was a gud game

it wuz funny cuz on the way to town they got stuck and couldn't jump then there was lowbie horde on the road so they ganked them



.....

Seriously, how clueless do you have to be to compare a game mastered RPG to a MMO?
 


i no rite. last night I ran 4e and the one player showed up early and he was like omg wtf

so he wandered around my house yelling "LFG" but then every1 else showed

so they went out of the town and grinded on bears for awhile because they had that quest to kill 10 plus they were saving up for their mount

it wuz ez 2 dm I just kept putting the same minis on the board all night

at the end they were very close so decided to go /dance in ironwind for 20 min then we ended it, it was a gud game

it wuz funny cuz on the way to town they got stuck and couldn't jump then there was lowbie horde on the road so they ganked them

You win.
 

Jackie Chain is constantly using tumbling, flying kicks, roundhouse kicks and so on because - like most movie characters - he is fighting Minions - if he hits, he gets to do all kinds of cool stuff. And of course, Jackie Chan has probably a DM that uses DMG p.42 a lot more then me or you (or your DM?).
Jackie also uses a lot of props, which, if they aren't present, limit the "do all kinds of cool things" that you can do with page 42.

I'm just happy to have buddies that can empathize with my dislike of 4E. Truly, I am a wizard at heart. I love playing a wizard that emulate the wizards I love from literature, not so much their powers as the feel of the mysterious, powerful wielder of arcane might that goes along quietly until it hits the fan and then goes off to help the party survive.

That type of wizard does not exist in 4E as everyone in the game is on equal footing. I know that appeals to quite a few people, so I can't fault it. But I like my casters to be able to nova and save the day. Same as some people like their fighters to be able to crit and level a giant in one mighty blow.

Well, there is your problem. You don't want to play a game with your friends, you want to play a game with your friends incidentally in the room.

Remove your expectations that you must be the most powerful character in the room and the game will play a lot better.
 
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Seriously, how clueless do you have to be to compare a game mastered RPG to a MMO?

If you don't get it, then there's not much that can help you. It's pretty obvious. In mechanics it's way closer to WoW than D&D. Oh, and you can knock off the ad hominems. You get a by because you're so new, but that's pretty frowned on on these boards. Maybe that's it. If 4E is your first game then it will look a lot different than WoW. I'd suggest trying a variety of games to get some perspective.
 
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How likely is it that your game will break up, leaving you with no one to create a new one?

It happened to me three years ago. First, one player unexpectedly got a scholarship to a school out-of-state. One month he was here, the next, gone. Then the DM's wife lost her job, and almost immediately found a new one out-of-state. Just like that, DM and player gone. Next player had been having a hard time making games because he had a new girlfriend who lived a city away, and he liked seeing her on weekends. He decided to call it quits. In the space of a little over one month, we lost three players plus the DM, and next thing you know me and Beale Knight are struggling to find players to start anew.

Here's the story hour - note the abrupt end:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=102537

This is the 21st century. There are many, many options available to you. OpenRPG, MapTools, RPGTonight, just to name three off hand. Yes, it's VTT, but, complaints that you absolutely cannot find a group are pretty easy to get around.

So, yes, finding a new group is like going to a grocery store. It really is that easy.

That is not D&D to me anymore than watching television is like being in a play.
 

I pretty much stopped reading after page 1. The initial responses to him were expected of course. Too much "omg, he doesnt like 4E, off with his head" for me to keep reading further.

To Celtavian, Im with you but treat it as the end of an era, and not just the end. There are entirely too many deal breakers in fluff as well as crunch for me to have courted that 4E Harlot! ;)
All joking aside, Im happy 4E is what it is and Im glad in a way things have come to this. My gaming roads now all lead to Paizo and I couldnt be happier.
The only thing I will miss is the actual name "D&D", but Im fine with "playing Pathfinder" (new and improved name with even less stigma!) ;)

To the rest, glad you are enjoying D&D's latest edition. Happy Gaming!
 

Jackie also uses a lot of props, which, if they aren't present, limit the "do all kinds of cool things" that you can do with page 42.



Well, there is your problem. You don't want to play a game with your friends, you want to play a game with your friends incidentally in the room.

Remove your expectations that you must be the most powerful character in the room and the game will play a lot better.

i do not think that is a fair characterization of what he is saying.

I think he wants characters that have different power distributions throughout a story. In 4E the distribution is the same with approx the same efficacy from all classes in most all situations (which is not to say they play the same).

He wants classes where he might be less effective in parts of the story and incredibly potent in specific instances.

I both understand and agree with that sentiment.

I also understand that others might want something else from the game.
 

Into the Woods

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