D&D 5E Favoured Soul: Do you want Wings or Divine Purity?

[Lord Twig]

Hate the wings. Would not use them in my game or play.

I'm not married to Divine Purity, but I do rather like the Favored Soul Sorcerer concept. So, it would be nice for it to remain something playable (i.e. no wings).

FWIW, I don't like the Dracanic Sorcerers getting wings, either. I'm just generally opposed to PCs with wings. I might allow aarakocra or winged elves in a specific setting, but I sure don't want to see it as a core option, especially for a class.

I get that you hate wings, but I'm curious. So same question that was posed to Hemlock...

At level 14? Why?

 

[Hawk Diesel]

Can I just say that I really don't understand people's opposition to players having the capability of flight via wings.

Also, while I totally understand wanting options that are different between archetypes (I have a whole thread about the whole rapid strike issue from the fighter UA), I actually feel like it fits here. Dragons, demons, dragons... they are are most commonly depicted as having wings. It's very iconic for each one. And sorcerers archetypes are commonly referred to as bloodlines, so it makes sense that wings would at some point show through as they become more attuned to the magic of their heritage.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Unless the question is some form of "Beatles vs Wings", the correct answer is usually "Wings".

I mean, movement in 3 dimensions without aid of spell or device has all kinds of ramifications in terms of travel, recon, attack, escape.

Impressing the ladies...

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Can I just say that I really don't understand people's opposition to players having the capability of flight via wings.

The big thing for me, aside from the whole re-skinning thing, is just that's overtly fantastic. It might be fine in Sigil or Waterdeep, but if you're trying for anything remotely low-fantasy in tone, the big glowy wings are working heavily against that.

I know, it's a fantasy setting and there are elves and wizards and stuff, but wings are a step beyond that. Elves and dwarves, or even dragonborn, are more like fantasy-world substitutes for foreign cultures; just having them present doesn't cause the world to play out in a fantastic manner. Even wizards and clerics are just normal people, who are otherwise indistinguishable from anyone else during the 98% of the time when they aren't in the middle of casting a spell.

Having wings is like playing as a dragon, or a talking dog. It's very clearly a high-fantasy thing.

 

[Mercule]

I get that you hate wings, but I'm curious. So same question that was posed to Hemlock...

At level 14? Why?

At any level, even epic. Without getting too deep, because they are goofy. Also, because I don't like playing up the inhuman aspect of Sorcerers that much. A class is a class and a race is a race; the lines between the two shouldn't be blurred too much.

Also, what [MENTION=6775031]Saelorn[/MENTION] said.

To turn it around, why would you want them?

 

[Mercule]

I mean, movement in 3 dimensions without aid of spell or device has all kinds of ramifications in terms of travel, recon, attack, escape.

Oh, I totally understand the power-gamey aspect of selecting wings and would absolutely pick them from that angle. As neither a player or GM do I want to be in a campaign where those are ongoing factors. Sure, exceptions exist and I could see doing it, but it would not be what I'd consider "normal" D&D, thus something I wouldn't want in the PHB or some other mainline supplement.

Impressing the ladies...

Looking like almost as much of a tool as sparkly vampires.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Oh, I totally understand the power-gamey aspect of selecting wings and would absolutely pick them from that angle. As neither a player or GM do I want to be in a campaign where those are ongoing factors. Sure, exceptions exist and I could see doing it, but it would not be what I'd consider "normal" D&D, thus something I wouldn't want in the PHB or some other mainline supplement.


Looking like almost as much of a tool as sparkly vampires.

I think that's the second time on ENWorld I've been "accused" of being a power gamer.

Personally, I see it as being not so much of a power gaming thing as tapping into one of the deepest dreams of humanity: flying like a bird. Sure, it has all those obvious mechanical advantages, but those advantages are also tied into it. Wings give you freedom. Plus, if you look at the servitors of the divine- IRL & in FRPGs- so many of them are winged. ESPECIALLY the powerful ones. IOW, being winged could be seen as a potent and obvious sign of divine favor.

So from my POV, it is a natural choice that most...humans, at least...would pick, almost by reflex. For some characters, literally "earning your wings" might even be a driving force.

Which all means that I see choosing them as a perfectly valid RP choice that also happens to have known & obvious mechanically solid reasons for selection.

As for looking a tool...

Just because you're a servant of the gods, it doesn't follow that you're Mr. Smooth. The power flight tied to big (probably) feathery wings is going to tap into a few dreams as well...

 

[Mercule]

I think that's the second time on ENWorld I've been "accused" of being a power gamer.

Just to be clear (since I totally see where it wasn't), I didn't actually mean to call you a power gamer. I was being somewhat casual in acknowledging that I see the advantages of flight.

Which all means that I see choosing them as a perfectly valid RP choice that also happens to have known & obvious mechanically solid reasons for selection.

As for looking a tool...

Just because you're a servant of the gods, it doesn't follow that you're Mr. Smooth. . The power flight tied to big, feathery* wings is going to tap into a few dreams as well...

One man's tool.... Wait... that isn't going to end well.

I do get the iconography. It's not really what I want in my psuedo-medieval fantasy game/fiction, though. While I'm not hard-core on the swords and sorcery schtick, I don't really care for the mythic, either. I like it somewhere in the Arthurian/LotR/Conan realm, with the occasional ninja thrown in. The guy with the sword (great or short) is probably the principal protagonist, with the caster as an adviser, sidekick, or foe. I'm a lot softer on that than I used to be, but my roots are still there.

Now, reviewing the Draconic bloodline, I do see that the wings aren't permanent. For some reason (3E Favored Soul?), I'd thought they were. That makes it quite a bit better -- I don't object to the fly spell, and these are basically that, with extra encumbrance rules instead of concentration. If the class is going to have wings, I'd kinda prefer to see it come at a cost of a Sorcery Point for an hour worth of wings, or something similar. But, it's not the end of the world, and the current rules pretty much leave it to the table to decide whether the character has "cool, permanent wings" that the PC can occasionally turn off, when desired, or "summoned wings" that show up only when needed.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Just to be clear, I know you didn't-hence the quotes. Probably should have use a wink emoticon instead of the big smile.

But as to pseudo-medievalism, I hope you know winged divine servitors isn't the exclusive purview of the West. They exist in Hindu iconography, as well as Assyrian and other eastern cultural/faith traditions as well.

 

[Mercule]

Just to be clear, I know you didn't-hence the quotes. Probably should have use a wink emoticon instead of the big smile.

We're all good.

But as to pseudo-medievalism, I hope you know winged divine servitors isn't the exclusive purview of the West. They exist in Hindu iconography, as well as Assyrian and other eastern cultural/faith traditions as well.

Understood. I think there're some competing influences on D&D. Its roots are in the mythology of Western Europe, especially as channeled through early-to-mid twentieth century fiction. Even that wasn't always internally consistent or universally accepted (I hate some of the sci-fi elements), but geekdom has become considerably more globalized.

There's nothing objectively wrong with Eastern (near or far) tropes, or even the great feats of Greek demigods. These are sometimes at odds with the "awesomeness" level that the original game tended to favor, though, or that some older fans ("hi, Mom") prefer.

I don't like anime/manga/Wuxia (yes, I know they're different, but they have similar cultural origins). No matter how many times I try someone's favorite, it always ends up coming off as near slapstick comedy, to me, especially when it's not trying to. I don't begrudge others for liking them, it just is at odds with what I want in a game.

As far as the Greek, Assyrian, etc. tropes, I could probably enjoy a game that included them. It isn't what I see as being the core of D&D, though. That's more what Exalted did well. You certainly could use the D&D rules to play that sort of game, but I'd rather see a supplement that focused on adding a "mythic" flair to things, rather than turning the core rules into more of a hodgepodge of ideas than it already is.