Feat: First Strike

Nifft · Jun 29, 2004

Yes, BAB +8 sounds good to me, too.

It's now in the same league as Greater Weapon Focus and Improved Crit. That sounds about right.

It's also a great pre-req for the XPH feat, Stand Still.

-- N

Prothall · Jun 29, 2004

I think I've actually heard of this fellow before... Wasn't there a link to something based on this in the 1000 non-RPG links thread? I have to see this movie now, in any case. Is it generally available?

hong · Jun 30, 2004

Sir Whiskers said:
If I understand what you're saying, the feat would have prereqs of Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw, and BAB +8.

I like this idea. It means that a fighter can't get the feat until 8th-level and it would require a few extra feats to do so. And by the time characters are 8th-level, the extra attack First Strike gives isn't too much. YMMV, but I think this is a good balance for the feat.

For gods sake. I can do everything this feat does by the exceedingly complex and difficult task of using a glaive. Or a spiked chain, if I'm feeling particularly munchy.

Hong "do not make me break out the ALL CAPS, people" Ooi

hong · Jun 30, 2004

Shadeus said:
If that's true, let's continue the above example where WarriorB has Speed 30 and Spring Attack. WarriorB's intent is to move up 20', attack, and spring back 10'. Regardless if his movement draws an AoO (which is doesn't because of Spring Attack), WarriorA still gets that attack on him when he enters the square.

Nonsense. Spring Attack negates AoOs from the target due to your movement. This feat lets you get an AoO due to movement, but in a slightly different circumstance. QED.

Kemrain · Jun 30, 2004

I love it! Stolen in a heartbeat. My GM approved it immediately, with your initial prereq's. Maybe I'll finally use my 5 AoO's per round now. Thanks.

- Kemrain the Struck First.

Sir Whiskers · Jun 30, 2004

hong said:
For gods sake. I can do everything this feat does by the exceedingly complex and difficult task of using a glaive. Or a spiked chain, if I'm feeling particularly munchy.

Hong "do not make me break out the ALL CAPS, people" Ooi

Then why bother with designing the feat? Unless, of course, the idea is to be able to do this with any weapon...in which case I think limiting when a character can get the feat is reasonable. YMMV.

hong · Jul 1, 2004

Sir Whiskers said:
Then why bother with designing the feat?

See the movie that was mentioned. Or one of any number of other chambara flicks. Heck, see The Princess Bride, even.

One of the staple scenes in swordfighting flicks is when a mob of low-level guys charges the sword-wielding hero, who slices them to ribbons before they can get a swing at him. This is not something that the D&D combat system emulates well.

1) You can do something similar by assuming the mooks close for combat, and then the hero uses iterative attacks, Cleave, GC and/or WWA to drop them all. However, this means the mooks get their shots in first, which is not something that typically happens.

2) The hero could ready an action to drop the first guy who comes in range. However, that's only one guy, and the rest still get to attack.

3) The hero could use a reach weapon. But in the movies, it's always a sword.

4) You could assume that the mooks start just far enough away that a full round's movement takes them to exactly 10 feet away from the hero, who then takes a 5' step and slices them up. But this is just silly.

Really, just because this feat lets you slice up mooks more easily is not something to be worried about. Mooks are typically not a threat to any mid- or high-level fighter, except in huge numbers (say 50+ or 100+). Even then, a couple of fireballs and they're toast. Mooks are there basically to let the PCs show off, unless there are exceptional circumstances to the combat. And the reach guy still has advantages in not having to close the range, and being better-equipped to handle other things with reach.

Sir Whiskers · Jul 1, 2004

hong said:
Really, just because this feat lets you slice up mooks more easily is not something to be worried about. Mooks are typically not a threat to any mid- or high-level fighter, except in huge numbers (say 50+ or 100+). Even then, a couple of fireballs and they're toast. Mooks are there basically to let the PCs show off, unless there are exceptional circumstances to the combat. And the reach guy still has advantages in not having to close the range, and being better-equipped to handle other things with reach.

Fair enough, but the feat isn't limited to being used against mooks. Let's try breaking down the original feat:

1. Combat Reflexes as a pre-req is not much of a "hurdle" for taking this feat. The feat is still useful by itself, but it's only when the character has Combat Reflexes and a Dex of 12+ that it really shines. Combined with the ability to use the First Strike when flat-footed (because of Combat Reflexes), this is nasty combo. I just don't see many characters taking this feat without Combat Reflexes, even if it wasn't a pre-req.

2. Quick Draw as a pre-req is more limiting - though useful in some situations, not many characters take it (IME). But since a 6th-level fighter will have 7 feats (8 if human), burning 3 to gain First Strike isn't much of a sacrifice.

Given the two points above, how many fighters of 6th-level, with a Dex of 12+, won't take this feat? I suppose if I was running an archer, I would pass on it. If I was running a brick with a low Dex, I'd have to think about it. But otherwise, it seems (IMO) a no-brainer. And any feat that seems too good to pass up is probably too good. Adding an extra pre-req (Improved Initiative) and bumping the BAB to +8 seems reasonable to me. But as I said before, YMMV. If it works in your campaign as originally conceived, I won't argue.