feelings and thoughts on Psionics

[Dandu]

If your argument is the game as a whole is completely broken then that's true. But how easy it is to get that way is an opinion not a fact.

Likewise, it's an opinion that psionics is "easier" to abuse. Let's examine these opinions that we are throwing about to see if they have any basis in fact.

The only thing you stated that made it "easier" to abuse was that it was "all in one book, where most other powerful builds require many sources." This statement is directly contradicted by the fact that the exact same situation exists in the PHB, where you have a lot of broken classes and spells in one book.

So tell me, exactly how is the XPH easier to abuse than the default books?

 

[DaemonHunter]

everyones opition is as valid as everyone elses thats why we have freedom of speak. Just because it may differ to yours or anyone elses doesnt mean he is any less entitled to it. We can agree or disagree thats what this is about voicing ones opinions, personnaly I think other classes are easier to abuse due to the amount of other material available. Thats my opinion.

this whole thing is why I havent comented or started posts on forums before as it always comes down to 'by dad is bigger than your dad' or 'Im right and your wrong because i say so'

Opinions are like @ssh0les everyones got one and most @ssh0les have more than most. Who are we to say its wrong unless they are stating it as fact!

As for which base class do I think things should be based on? which ever is closest to what you are doing as in if its a fighter type then fighter/pally/monk, if its a caster than which ever caster class its closest too. I find this very helpfull when designing classes and do the same thing with Prc I also look at Prc's that are similar or have similar abilities. Just as it says to do for creatures.

 

[Dandu]

this whole thing is why I havent comented or started posts on forums before as it always comes down to 'by dad is bigger than your dad' or 'Im right and your wrong because i say so'

I'm not just saying so. I'm actually providing proof. See previous sorcerer builds for details.

As for which base class do I think things should be based on? which ever is closest to what you are doing as in if its a fighter type then fighter/pally/monk, if its a caster than which ever caster class its closest too.

What about the power gap between the Monk and the Druid? How does perpetuating this imbalance serve to make the game better balanced?

 

[DaemonHunter]

Its the same thing proof or not he is entitled to his opinion right or wrong. I dont want to get into this more as it will start me on a rant about all the other so called legal/canon builds I have seen on these forums that are anything but legal.

As for the gap, hell its a good start using a base line that already exists and better than just making it up as you go. I never said the classes were balanced but then I dont base my PC's on which is most over powered (which if you knew me is a miracle LOL) I build characters I want to play if that means a monk I play a monk if its a druid I play a druid. I very rarely play a caster as I get bored too easily with them, unless I find a theme I like. The last being a force mage with force missile mage and argent savant was a nice idea but did start to get alittle overpowered in the end.

I build all PC/NPC's the same I have an idea of what I want to be able to do and build from there not look at what I can break, thats too easy and has lead me to leave plenty of game systems in the past.

The system is un-balanced and theres nothing to do about it but I find it works just fine for me, it does mean that everything I design fits into this imperfect frame work just fine and not working off the most broken to make it worse. After all it has a high and a low point built in As long as it fits between these points its fine.

 

[Crothian]

So tell me, exactly how is the XPH easier to abuse than the default books?

Psionics are more versatile. The power point system allows for a wider range of abilities to be used as needed. Many powers one can use more points make stronger so it allows greater use of ones resources since powers can have different strengths depending on what is needed. These is especially important at low levels when character resources are very limited.

By the same token and I can also request you to prove your side. Just listing three spells doesn't make it true or mean anything. It also seems like you are using just builds to determine strength. There is lot more then just numbers. But even with builds one needs to consider what he character is going to be like at all levels and not just level 20. It also isn't about a single build verse single build. It needs to be about all builds and about how players use them in real games not just listing a character as numbers and spell/power list.

To really make this fact as you seem to want to you'll need to do a lot more then showcase a few builds. Frankly, I don't think it's worth anyone time or effort. The OP just wanted opinions on psionics and I gave mine.

 

[DaemonHunter]

I forgot to say as went onto a bit of a rant LOL

I value everyones opinion as much as the last even yours Dandu LOL. Its what helps decide things look at all sides and then you can make your own mind up which is right or best for you.


My meds must be working as normally when I want someones opinion I give them it LOL

I did indead ask for your opinions and feelings and thank you for giving yours

 

[Dandu]

Psionics are more versatile. The power point system allows for a wider range of abilities to be used as needed.
Many powers one can use more points make stronger so it allows greater use of ones resources since powers can have different strengths depending on what is needed. These is especially important at low levels when character resources are very limited.

Vancian magic scales with level, which means that you get free benefits without needing to augment things. Augmenting is expensive and eats through PP rather quickly.

in addition, powers are generally weaker than spells, so having them be more versatile isn't really a bad thing.

By the same token and I can also request you to prove your side.

So presenting build showing that core can be easily broken is not evidence?

Just listing three spells doesn't make it true or mean anything.

Better than listing no examples at all.

But even with builds one needs to consider what he character is going to be like at all levels and not just level 20.

Considered. And I've had lower level core sorcerer builds in the examples listed before that could easily progress into the higher level ones.

It also isn't about a single build verse single build. It needs to be about all builds and about how players use them in real games not just listing a character as numbers and spell/power list.

Hold on. If it's about how players use them in real games... this has to do with players, not the system of psionics.

To really make this fact as you seem to want to you'll need to do a lot more then showcase a few builds.

Would you like me to go through the PHB spells one by one and tell you the tricks?

Let's see what I can remember off the top of my head.

• Explosive Runes bombs.
• Planar Binding Nightmares at level 10 for Astral Projection and Etheralness, initiating infinite Wish loops at level 12 or earlier, and getting Pit Fiend minions to cast Blasphemy on your enemies.
• Simulacrum cloning Solars since the Solar's spellcasting ability isn't tied to its HD.
• Taking 10 on Contact Other Plane.
• Shapechange shenanigans involving Chokers for an additional standard or move action every turn.
• Polymorph Any Object exploits which involve things like aqua regia and turning imp familiars into Horned Devils.
• Contingency and Foresight.

 

[Crothian]

So presenting build showing that core can be easily broken is not evidence?

No one is disputing the core can not easily be broken.

Hold on. If it's about how players use them in real games... this has to do with players, not the system of psionics.

It is always about the players they are the ones that matter and are playing the game. If we are going to ignore the players and how the game is played then we are ignoring the game.

Would you like me to go through the PHB spells one by one and tell you the tricks?

If you want, I don't really care. I'm not going to read it. If you are looking for someone to argue with and go back and forth with posting and quoting things from the books: I'm not your man. I have real responsibilities that prevent me from spending that kind of time on a senseless project. Plus, that's not how I play the game.

If you want to have some fun start a poll but make sure you hit the option so voting is public. You'll be able to see the names of everyone that disagrees with you and you can use the new tool to call their attention to a post and try to prove them all wrong. Good Luck!

 

[Dandu]

No one is disputing the core can not easily be broken.

True; I believe you statement was

The biggest problem with Psionics its that it easier to abuse considering the effort. It's all in one book where most other powerful builds require many sources (discounting books that just compile other books into them) and it is easier to deal with them.

Which makes your dismissal of actual builds presented... interesting.

It is always about the players they are the ones that matter and are playing the game. If we are going to ignore the players and how the game is played then we are ignoring the game.

So how are psionics broken because of the players?

Verbal smokescreen

Still no actual word on what it takes to "actually make it a fact".

 

[DaemonHunter]

Here we go MINES BIGGER THAN YOURS! forget it guys seems like the only thing people are intrested in is finding ways to break rules and spells to prove they can do stuff. Its a game a roleplay game where what ever you do THE DM ALWAYS HAS THE BIGGEST. Carry on as you like and I'll carry on shaking my head and thinking bad thinks about you.

thanks to those who can see past the stuff they read off the internet done by people who have nothing better to do and most of the time miss read the rules anyway. See pun-pun or the war hulk doing thousands of points od damage in 1 hit. Have fun I'll go back to my life now.