feelings and thoughts on Psionics

[Crothian]

Which makes your dismissal of actual builds presented... interesting.
So how are psionics broken because of the players?

You brought up builds not me. I'm talking about how psionics are used by players through the course of a campaign.

Still no actual word on what it takes to "actually make it a fact".

I'm not trying to make it fact; it's an opinion. Also, try to be a little less argumentative, dismissing, and insulting please. I'd probably be a little more willing to engage your requests if you didn't seem to act like a bully.

 

[Dandu]

Here we go MINES BIGGER THAN YOURS! forget it guys seems like the only thing people are intrested in is finding ways to break rules and spells to prove they can do stuff.

The contention was that the XPH is not easier to break than core magic... which was in no way an endorsement of breaking rules or spells, for that matter, but merely a statement of how things are.

thanks to those who can see past the stuff they read off the internet done by people who have nothing better to do and most of the time miss read the rules anyway.

Odd that you should say that. Most of the respected CO community from Gleemax (the WotC message boards) are doing fairly well in life and are very scrupulous as to staying within the rules.

See pun-pun or the war hulk doing thousands of points od damage in 1 hit. Have fun I'll go back to my life now.

Ironically, no one was misreading the rules when making Pun Pun or the War Hulk build. At least, the most recent versions of them.

Helpful advice: If you want to discuss rules misreading, use the Locate City Bomb as an example instead. It does seem to be a bit dodgy.

 

[Dandu]

You brought up builds not me.

The biggest problem with Psionics its that it easier to abuse considering the effort. It's all in one book where most other powerful builds require many sources (discounting books that just compile other books into them) and it is easier to deal with them.

Perhaps being a horrible person is affecting my memory, but I'm pretty sure you said that.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Ahhh...the sweet sound of large pieces of meat being slapped down next to yardsticks.

IMHO, psionics is no more or less broken, overall, than the core magic system of 3.X. There are some things psionics does better than magic and vice versa, and each system has exemplars of over and underpowered effects.

Its just that magic's problems are more well documented, while psionics' problems are more widely feared and misunderstood.

 

[Crothian]

Perhaps being a horrible person is affecting my memory, but I'm pretty sure you said that.

Correct, but I wasn't the first person to bring up builds in the thread. You can pick apart what I say all you want and call yourself a horrible person for it but I'm not sure it is helping the thread.

Its just that magic's problems are more well documented, while psionics' problems are more widely feared and misunderstood.

That is a possibility, too.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Ahhh...the sweet sound of large pieces of meat being slapped down next to yardsticks.

IMHO, psionics is no more or less broken, overall, than the core magic system of 3.X. There are some things psionics does better than magic and vice versa, and each system has exemplars of over and underpowered effects.

Its just that magic's problems are more well documented, while psionics' problems are more widely feared and misunderstood.

Actually, I'd put it a different way. It's not that psionics exploits are less well-documented, but rather that psionics has fewer, really bad exploits while magic has many, less terrible ones. There are only about 5-6 actually broken combinations with psionics, but all of them rocket off to infinity (infinite action loops, truly infinite PP tricks that don't require actions, unlimited buffs of infinite duration, etc.); however, all of those tricks are almost intuitively obvious if you look at the mechanics involved.

Spells, on the other hand, have exploits or broken abilities that aren't as powerful, but there are many many more of them and they aren't as obvious--binding a nightmare for astral projection isn't the same level of gamebreaking, and a DM won't instantly catch on unless he knows of the trick or is good with the rules. Plus, the most broken thing in psionics, the Spell-to-Power Erudite, is in a web enhancement and is broken because it gets spellcasting, whereas the most broken things in Vancian casting are pretty much in the PHB with a few exceptions.

Put those two together, and both are broken, but psionics are less so and more easily stopped.

 

[Dandu]

Spells, on the other hand, have exploits or broken abilities that aren't as powerful, but there are many many more of them and they aren't as obvious--binding a nightmare for astral projection isn't the same level of gamebreaking, and a DM won't instantly catch on unless he knows of the trick or is good with the rules

Wouldn't an infinite PP trick be about as obvious/not obvious? It's not like there are spells and feats that immediately cry out "You can get infinite PP when you combine these!"

You have to research those tricks, and if a DM doesn't notice that Nightmares will cause problems, he probably won't also notice when you sneak a Torc of Power Preservation* into your character's equipment sheet.

Incidentally, arcane magic has infinite loops too. Usually involving Sanctum Spell and/or Repeat Spell + Echoing Spell.

*Which, incidentally, has been eratta'd to work differently and can no longer be used in infinite PP schemes.

 

[Herzog]

After some re-consideration and reading some of the other posts, I suddenly realised why I often feel Psionics is 'overpowered'.

It's because psionics doesn't have it's own niche.

Psionicists don't necessarily replace an existing class, but often overlap with other classes in their powers.

That's why I often feel Psionicists are more powerfull than they should be: they are as powerfull in a certain niche as the (core) class I am usally seeing there.

So it is, after all, more a question of 'feeling' than of facts.

But then, that how this thread started...

 

[irdeggman]

I think what we have here is a case of "profiling" and class/mechanic prejudice (similar to the Book of Nine Swords).

Psionics' mechanics are different then the core and therefor "feared" at an instinctive level - since in general people fear change (at least at first).

Can't we all just get along

 

[BENINHB]

These last two posts hit the nail on the head