Female Dragonborn - No longer have breasts?

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

The problem with this is that you're applying scientific reasoning as it pertains to fauna on Earth, to a fantasy world with little to no ties to scientific logic.

Actually, I'd say the problem lies in the very idea of using biological categories - which in the wake of Darwin we know to be, for the most part, historical categories of convenience rather than ontological categories of substance - if you live in a world in which a creature evolved scales, lactation, and 'boobs' then that's the world you live in there's no logic to it except that somehow this combination of traits ended up together and proved not so horrible in its evolutionary context that everyone with those traits died.


So, in the end, the argument must be aesthetic. And I, for one, think Dragonborn should have boobs.

And now I'm off to sew my nerd merit badge for debating dragon boobs onto my sash.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Monotremes = mammals.
Dragonborn = not mammals.

It'n not the biological necessity of the Dragonborn's boobs that make them stupid. It's the haphazard anthropomorphization that they imply.

It's not even the anthropomorphism. It's the prurient application of same. They could have done a lot of things to differentiate male and female dragonborn, but what do they do? Slap some boobs on 'em so they'll sex up the art. The boobs are only there to make the books more attractive to 13-year-olds. Seriously, who would have thought that WotC would be attempting to court the furry (scaly) fetishists? But here you have it.

Also, looking at the new art, it seems less like they've removed the boobs as that they've removed her armour and that she has no nipples. There are still boobs there, they just made them look like they're covered with monochromatic tan scales.

 

[pawsplay]

 

[Starbuck_II]

Exactly. Dragons do NOT bring all the boys to the yard.

That is because "dang right they are better than yours. They could teach you but they'd have to charge. "

 

[Mad Mac]

Slap some boobs on 'em so they'll sex up the art. The boobs are only there to make the books more attractive to 13-year-olds.

I'm like 358% certain this wasn't a deciding factor, honest. I'm also pretty darn sure that no one went with pawsplay's ninja boobie turtle pic above because they thought it was "hawt".

It's just a style of anthromorphism that gets used a lot. Just looking at 3rd edition, I've seen Yuan-ti, Medusa, Half-Dragons, and Dragonborn* with boobs, and I sure I'm missing some examples.

Yes you can argue that all of the above creatures are part human, ect ect and that makes it ok, but the simple fact of the matter is, that isn't why they get drawn with boobs and Lizardfolk don't. The manager of art direction at wizards does not have an official boob and scales policy that stipulates the comparitive ratios of lizard and mammal blood were boobage is officially acceptable.

It's because Lizardfolk and Troglodytes are less anthromorphized then Half-Dragons and sundry. Lizardfolk bodies are more lizard shaped, whereas Half-Dragons and Dragonborn and Medusa and all their cousins have human shaped bodies. This is the deciding factor. Now, I'm not saying you have to like the design for Dragonborn or there is anything wrong with wishing they looked more reptile-ish. I just get tired of people ascribing silly motives to the designers without any evidence.

Heck, this kind of thing is done all the time, even to characters who aren't humanoid to start with. I don't even know how many 4 legged disney animals I've seen that have conveniently shaped puffs of fur to make them like more feminine to the audience. The existence of furries on the internet does not make all forms of anthromorphism sexually charged.

I can't believe I let myself get sucked back into this thread...

*Original version of Dragonborn, where they were basically transformed humans and demihumans.

 

[DandD]

I'm like 358% certain this wasn't a deciding factor, honest. I'm also pretty darn sure that no one went with pawsplay's ninja boobie turtle pic above because they thought it was "hawt".

You sure about this? This is the internet, Mac. Everything vile and disgusting happens on the internet.

It's just a style of anthromorphism that gets used a lot. Just looking at 3rd edition, I've seen Yuan-ti, Medusa, Half-Dragons, and Dragonborn* with boobs, and I sure I'm missing some examples.

Artists are all perverts. Sexy snake-ladies are one thing to lure horny players into the erotic mysticism that appeals to the sword-and-sorcery trope, where naked women dance with curling snakes around. Yuan-Ti-Halfbloods are just the epitome of that. D&D-Medusas are even noted for having well-proportioned bodies, it's just their head that doesn't look nice. Heck, there's even one picture of some psion-class in the 3rd edition psion-handbook oogling at a naked medusa, because he has some psionic powers that protect his eyes or something like that.

Yes you can argue that all of the above creatures are part human, ect ect and that makes it ok, but the simple fact of the matter is, that isn't why they get drawn with boobs and Lizardfolk don't. The manager of art direction at wizards does not have an official boob and scales policy that stipulates the comparitive ratios of lizard and mammal blood were boobage is officially acceptable.

Are there even pictures of FEMALE lizardfolks? We always only get to see their male ones. Of course, drawing bewbies (in exquisite cleavage) is still meant to draw in horny people.

It's because Lizardfolk and Troglodytes are less anthromorphized then Half-Dragons and sundry. Lizardfolk bodies are more lizard shaped, whereas Half-Dragons and Dragonborn and Medusa and all their cousins have human shaped bodies. This is the deciding factor. Now, I'm not saying you have to like the design for Dragonborn or there is anything wrong with wishing they looked more reptile-ish. I just get tired of people ascribing silly motives to the designers without any evidence.

For all my contempt I have for the setting of The Dark Eye, I find their lizardmen, the Achaz, to be the best so far.

Heck, this kind of thing is done all the time, even to characters who aren't humanoid to start with. I don't even know how many 4 legged disney animals I've seen that have conveniently shaped puffs of fur to make them like more feminine to the audience. The existence of furries on the internet does not make all forms of anthromorphism sexually charged.

Some furry phantasies exactly began because of Disney Cartoon animals. Some others because of Warner Brothers.

Yeah, the Internet is a weird and terrible place...

I can't believe I let myself get sucked back into this thread...

Hahahahahaha... That's because it's true.

 

[Mad Mac]

Are there even pictures of FEMALE lizardfolks? We always only get to see their male ones.

I was thinking this too, and I can't remember any. For good reason, I'm sure.

Some furry phantasies exactly began because of Disney Cartoon animals. Some others because of Warner Brothers.

Arg...I think what it comes down to, is that we are all human beings here. The easiest way to make something look feminine to us is to make them look like female women, in some fashion (cleavage isn't mandatory) Naturally, anything that reminds us of women...well you know. And the internet is a truly filthy place. But that doesn't mean Bambi is porno just because of fetishists, anymore than bare feet are taboo just because some people really get off on that sort of thing.

Now, you can be all scientific and logical and stuff, and design your alien race so that the females of the species are distingushed by their rippling muscles and flat chests but that doesn't change the fact that the resulting picture will simply not look female to anyone. We're not lizards, and we'll never be able to visualize their ideal of female beauty.

But yes, all artists are pervs.

 

[DandD]

But that doesn't mean Bambi is porno just because of fetishists, anymore than bare feet are taboo just because some people really get off on that sort of thing.

Bambi is forever ruined for me since the day of porn stars who call themselves Bambi Whateversillyname... Truly, porn can make everything sickly disgusting.

And the internet is for porn...

 

[VannATLC]

Excellent. I await the return of the 3' halfling, then.

Grrr.

Did you ever take the carrying capacity changes underhand with Halflings (For being small?)
That and they need a -4 to strength.. or they all look like pocket hercules.

If, anywhere, it was fluffed that they were magically super-halflingly strong for their size, I'd be better with it. But its not.

 

[That One Guy]

Skimming this has brought me the lawlz.

But would grandma approve of this thread? Tsk tsk.