Festival of Halina (Orsal Judging)

[Rystil Arden]

"If we use th' money to our advantage, then we can get better stuff an' continue ta take on bigger threats ta th' world at large an' whatnot, fer th' good of all, y'know?"

"That is a very dangerous opinion. Deciding that being an 'adventurer' gives you a right to kill someone on the road, take the money off of his body and figure that if you have better stuff it will make the world better and safer makes you in practise little better than a bandit yourself. Sure, you may think that you will put the money to better use than the rightful owners, but who knows? When you take the definition of good into your own hands and say 'What is good for me is good for the world,' you have taken a non-equitable role of self-importance that often leads to darkness. Who gives adventurers the right to be so special that any gain for them is a gain for the world? It is this sort of pragmatic utilitarianism that leads many of the worst villains astray when they think that they are trying to do good by conquering and subjugating people."

"As for determining whose money it really is, I have ways of manipulating people's minds through the Zivaash--I could use them to determine the truth before giving the gold away."

 

[LogicsFate]

"That is a very dangerous opinion. Deciding that being an 'adventurer' gives you a right to kill someone on the road, take the money off of his body and figure that if you have better stuff it will make the world better and safer makes you in practise little better than a bandit yourself. Sure, you may think that you will put the money to better use than the rightful owners, but who knows? When you take the definition of good into your own hands and say 'What is good for me is good for the world,' you have taken a non-equitable role of self-importance that often leads to darkness. Who gives adventurers the right to be so special that any gain for them is a gain for the world? It is this sort of pragmatic utilitarianism that leads many of the worst villains astray when they think that they are trying to do good by conquering and subjugating people."

"As for determining whose money it really is, I have ways of manipulating people's minds through the Zivaash--I could use them to determine the truth before giving the gold away."

Wanting to jump in "YEAH!" but having nothing to add

 

[Rystil Arden]

Elise thinks about it for a second. Speaking analytically I'm not sure how well everyone will feel about that, being how it is standard practice to split all spoils amongst the group. Pushing her glasses up. Seeing how we are going to or near the town of Covington we should take him there. As diverting course, we shouldn't. We have been given a job and as soon as this guard mission is over then you and I can find the true owners of our shares and return them... or maybe just give them to someone in need. Smiling gently

I'm not sure how well everyone will feel about that, being how it is standard practice to split all spoils amongst the group.

"I do not agree with the principle behind this practise. These are not 'spoils' before some conquering army of light. We murdered one man and beat three others into submission--this does not give us the right to the gold they had stolen."

"Anyway, if there is town very close, since the wagons are not too speedy, we could send a few people on a triangular diversion and meet back up after we drop off the bandits. Surely the wagon will be safer with the bandits in custody than it would with three of them on board with us?"

 

[Rystil Arden]

(OOC: I apologise for Lasair being such a goody two-shoes)

 

[GnomeWorks]

OoC: No problem, it makes for some interesting RPing opportunities.

Lasair
"That is a very dangerous opinion. Deciding that being an 'adventurer' gives you a right to kill someone on the road, take the money off of his body and figure that if you have better stuff it will make the world better and safer makes you in practise little better than a bandit yourself. Sure, you may think that you will put the money to better use than the rightful owners, but who knows? When you take the definition of good into your own hands and say 'What is good for me is good for the world,' you have taken a non-equitable role of self-importance that often leads to darkness. Who gives adventurers the right to be so special that any gain for them is a gain for the world? It is this sort of pragmatic utilitarianism that leads many of the worst villains astray when they think that they are trying to do good by conquering and subjugating people."

"Should I point out that I di'n't land th' final blow on any of 'em?" Troi asks, standing up. "I take what th' world gives me. I don't try ta look fer trouble, but when it cames ta me, I don't let it go by unnoticed. Th' bandit was obviously tryin' ta take advantage a those who can't defend themselves - would ya say it's wrong, then, that we stop 'im? Should we've let 'im live an' continue, give in ta th' wrong? Appeasement's not exactly th' right option there, either. Far better ta take 'im out than ta let 'im run rampant on those who can't defend themselves. As adventurers it's our..." He pauses, searching for the right word. "...responsibility ta take 'em out. It's our job ta ensure that those who can't defend themselves get th' justice they deserve, an' whatnot - an' we did that. Now we take th' spoils a war, an' take what we've won, an' get better 'quipment so that next time we kin take out more an' quicker, if we gotta."

 

[Rystil Arden]

It's our job ta ensure that those who can't defend themselves get th' justice they deserve, an' whatnot - an' we did that. Now we take th' spoils a war, an' take what we've won, an' get better 'quipment so that next time we kin take out more an' quicker, if we gotta."

"Who decides what is justice?" Lasair asks "If Phineus's young and innocent daughter hunts you down and kills you on the road because she is looking for the murderer who slaughtered her father and forced her mother into prostitution to pay for the family, she believes that she has brought justice. And I guess she could take all of your things as well. You and I wouldn't agree with her, but the starving villagers whose money you are taking to buy a new shortsword or the like in order to kill more people are unlikely to give you a blessing when you walk into their village a few weeks later with you new shortsword and announce 'I killed the bandits, and look at the new sword I bought with the money I found!' as they huddle over the corpse of their infant son who starved to death because they didn't have enough money to feed him--the money from selling their goods for the season was lost on the road to a group of bandits."

"I do not dispute that ending the bandits' predations was a good thing. Banditry is not the right way, and I would lend my spear to your aid every time in battle against bandits. However, taking the money of innocents for ourselves and feeling entitled to do so has crossed the line, in my opinion."

 

[Bront]

Ingus is intrigued by what Lasair says. He makes a comment "I know, that if anyone actualy payed these bandits, it was likely because they couldn't defend themselves. I know that if I were one of those taken by the bandits, I'd be glad to donate the money to the fine group of adventurers who took them down and drove them out."

"However, if you want to know where they got all their moeny from, you can always ask the awake one." He says.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Lasair
"Who decides what is justice? If Phineus's young and innocent daughter hunts you down and kills you on the road because she is looking for the murderer who slaughtered her father and forced her mother into prostitution to pay for the family, she believes that she has brought justice. And I guess she could take all of your things as well.

Troi nods. "Yeah, that's a kind of justice in an' of itself. An' she'd be right ta 'venge her father, I s'pose."

Lasair
"You and I wouldn't agree with her, but the starving villagers whose money you are taking to buy a new shortsword or the like in order to kill more people are unlikely to give you a blessing when you walk into their village a few weeks later with you new shortsword and announce 'I killed the bandits, and look at the new sword I bought with the money I found!' as they huddle over the corpse of their infant son who starved to death because they didn't have enough money to feed him--the money from selling their goods for the season was lost on the road to a group of bandits."

"Yeah, but with th' money we get from th' bandits, we can ensure that it won't happen again - or at least 'ave a better chance a makin' sure it doesn't."

Lasair
"I do not dispute that ending the bandits' predations was a good thing. Banditry is not the right way, and I would lend my spear to your aid every time in battle against bandits. However, taking the money of innocents for ourselves and feeling entitled to do so has crossed the line, in my opinion."

Troi shakes his head. "They've already felt th' loss - what makes ya think that returnin' it now'll do any good? They're already copin' with whatever loss they had ta deal with. An' like I said, it'd be near impossible ta get it back ta th' owners. How much've th' bandits spent? How much do they have hidin' in th' woods somewhere? Is it better ta try ta get th' money back ta those who lost it, er ta ensure that it won't happen ta someone else?" His voice darkens. "Ya can't help what's already happened, but ya can damn well make sure it won't happen again. So take what's happened an' make somethin' good of it - an' by that, in this instance, I mean take th' money and make yerself better, so ya can stop it th' next time, an' th' next."

 

[El Jefe]

Oirhandir returned from healing the injured bandit, pleased that his modification to the mending spell had worked. He already had an idea for another spell to teach himself, one that had nothing to do with the ones he already knew -- but that would wait for later, as would healing the other injured bandit.

He listened to the argument about the bandit's posessions, and spoke simply: "Ingus speaks wisely. Lasair, use your Zivaash, as you call it, to tell if the man speaks the truth, if you can. Then just ask him." He paused.

"If the money was taken from a handful of wealthy travelers, we may be able to return it. But if what I suspect is true, you'll be chasing down travelers from here to Fallon and back handing this one back his copper piece and that one back his silver. A life's work over a silly bag of gold, or at least a life's work for one who does not live so long as elves. Besides, our first duty is to Ingus and his caravan, or does our word mean nothing?"

 

[Rystil Arden]

Troi shakes his head. "They've already felt th' loss - what makes ya think that returnin' it now'll do any good? They're already copin' with whatever loss they had ta deal with. An' like I said, it'd be near impossible ta get it back ta th' owners."

"That is just an apology for the shadow of avarice. As Oirhandir and Ingus suggested, why not first check to see if we can figure out who the owners were. If we do figure it out, then perhaps the owners will decide that we should keep the gold, as Ingus said he would in this situation, and perhaps not. If you don't even try to find out, making excuses without checking first, then you are just taking the easy way out."

"Ingus speaks wisely. Lasair, use your Zivaash, as you call it, to tell if the man speaks the truth, if you can. Then just ask him."

A good idea.

(OOC: Lasair will speak kindly to the bandit in an attempt to learn the information she desires (Diplomacy +9). If that doesn't work, she can Charm him and try again.)