Fiendish Codex I - What do you want to see in it?

[jester47]

An update to the Demonologist PrC (we sold our soul for rock and roll!)
ORCUS ORCUS ORCUS (just has a better ring than hast...)
3.5 WotC Shadow Demon.

I will be happy.

What do you want in the fiendish codex I?

 

[Shemeska]

I want the Tanar'ri chapter of Faces of Evil v3.5.

Will I get it? I doubt it. But I'm hoping for something close to it and as imaginatively written, and something as faithful as possible to the absolutely massive wealth of 2e material on the Abyss.

The brilliant material from 'Planes of Chaos' and 'Hellbound: The Blood War', used as primary sources. The over the top goofiness in H4, hopefully less of that.

Additional flavor for areas of the Abyss that haven't been covered before? Absolutely if it's well written, and I trust that Eric can do so, assuming that he isn't stifled by anyone above him.

I want a 3.5 Molydeus.

I want Archfiends to be given rationale in the 3.5 rules for why true deities generally don't screw with them, and why true deities frequently lose when they get into conflict with archfiends on the fiends' home plane.

I could do without archfiend stat blocks though unless they're presented as avatars, not the real thing. For the love of God, please don't water them down simply so PCs can kill them and take their stuff at lower levels. It cheapens them and it cheapens the depth of the game if you weaken them artificially to satisfy munchkins, but sadly the precident for this has already been made in 3e and it's likely out of Eric's hands.

I want some touching upon Abyssal pre-history, aka pre-Tanar'ri, something that was always hinted at vaguely but never elaborated in prior material. That said, I want some allusion to the Waste origin of the first Tanar'ri, or even an overt mention of their migration into the Abyss.

I want detail on the Varrangoin / Abyssal Bats, and their civilization before it was destroyed by the Tanar'ri.

I want some touching upon the rumors of an Astral origin for the Bebeliths as per 'Guide to the Astral'. Exploring this idea would be fun.

I -do not- want chapters of PrCs and feats. The less crunch the better. A writeup of non PrC associated pacts between mortals and Tanar'ri would be quite interesting to see.

 

[Soel]

I want a 3.5 Molydeus.

I think its safe to say, that based on a quote from Erik here (unless I'm recalling wrong,) that this will be in the book.

I hope its does feature more about the relationship between mortals and demons.

 

[DragonLancer]

I want a 3.5 Molydeus.

I was about to say the same thing.

 

[BOZ]

I want the Tanar'ri chapter of Faces of Evil v3.5.

Will I get it? I doubt it. But I'm hoping for something close to it and as imaginatively written, and something as faithful as possible to the absolutely massive wealth of 2e material on the Abyss.

well, given that the book is about 10 times as long as that chapter, you might see most or all of that material used in one shape or form. simply reprinting the chapter won't do - you already have that.

The brilliant material from 'Planes of Chaos' and 'Hellbound: The Blood War', used as primary sources. The over the top goofiness in H4, hopefully less of that.

Additional flavor for areas of the Abyss that haven't been covered before? Absolutely if it's well written, and I trust that Eric can do so, assuming that he isn't stifled by anyone above him.

same as my previous comment. given that Erik has already inquired about H4 specifically, i wouldn't be surprised to see that used, again, in some way shape or form. and there will certainly be expansion on all of this; that you can expect.

I want a 3.5 Molydeus.

Oh come on.

Have a little faith, people.

I want Archfiends to be given rationale in the 3.5 rules for why true deities generally don't screw with them, and why true deities frequently lose when they get into conflict with archfiends on the fiends' home plane.

Just you wait.

I could do without archfiend stat blocks though unless they're presented as avatars, not the real thing. For the love of God, please don't water them down simply so PCs can kill them and take their stuff at lower levels. It cheapens them and it cheapens the depth of the game if you weaken them artificially to satisfy munchkins, but sadly the precident for this has already been made in 3e and it's likely out of Eric's hands.

i don't think anything has been said about whether or not stats will be given for archdemons (flavor text, i think we can expect plenty of), though my gut feeling strongly suggests that they are going to let the BoVD and Demonomicon do all the talking regarding those stats. they have plenty of other things they want to cover, and that stuff takes up room.

I want some touching upon Abyssal pre-history, aka pre-Tanar'ri, something that was always hinted at vaguely but never elaborated in prior material. That said, I want some allusion to the Waste origin of the first Tanar'ri, or even an overt mention of their migration into the Abyss.

i think Erik was also enquiring about that awhile back... or was that just the Queen of Chaos and her brood?

I want detail on the Varrangoin / Abyssal Bats, and their civilization before it was destroyed by the Tanar'ri.

i don't think anything has been said about the varrangoin yet, so i can't comment. but perhaps - i think James was saying that there will be some info on non-demons as well.

I want some touching upon the rumors of an Astral origin for the Bebeliths as per 'Guide to the Astral'. Exploring this idea would be fun.

i know even less about that - but then, why do you think i've been spending so much time dropping nuggets of info for Mssrs Mona and Jacobs to peruse as they see fit? you have added another one...

I -do not- want chapters of PrCs and feats. The less crunch the better. A writeup of non PrC associated pacts between mortals and Tanar'ri would be quite interesting to see.

sounds like this one is going to be a necessary evil. i could do without them as well, but they don't particularly bother me.

 

[Shemeska]

same as my previous comment. given that Erik has already inquired about H4 specifically, i wouldn't be surprised to see that used, again, in some way shape or form. and there will certainly be expansion on all of this; that you can expect.

It had a chain smoking celestial with a texan accent living in a fortress called El Amo. It was goofy.

Maybe they can strip out its sins and salvage something from it I suppose.

i think Erik was also enquiring about that awhile back... or was that just the Queen of Chaos and her brood?

He did ask about that a while back. Almost a year ago or more, but I wasn't ever sure if it was for anything regarding the Demonomicon or for the Age of Worms material, since the Vaati and the Queen of Chaos are mentioned in that adventure path in Dungeon.

However, the Queen of Chaos isn't even from the Abyss, though she later was allied with a minor Abyssal Lord (or Abyssal Prince, it hasn't ever been solid if Miska ever actually was powerful enough to rule an entire layer, and they never had much of any impact in the Abyss, or its history w/ regards to the Blood War.)

i don't think anything has been said about the varrangoin yet, so i can't comment. but perhaps - i think James was saying that there will be some info on non-demons as well.

Aye, they haven't mentioned anything, but it was always intriuging from the few lines in Planes of Chaos about layers of the Abyss holding the ruins of Varrangoin cities, long destroyed by the Tanar'ri. I've always speculated that they preceeded the Tanar'ri as Abyssal natives, though likely minor natives, and not anything like Abyssal versions of the Ancient Baatorians vs Baatezu thing.

i know even less about that - but then, why do you think i've been spending so much time dropping nuggets of info for Mssrs Mona and Jacobs to peruse as they see fit? you have added another one...

Oh I mentioned it pretty early on in the other thread. *grin*

 

[Pants]

I want some touching upon the rumors of an Astral origin for the Bebeliths as per 'Guide to the Astral'. Exploring this idea would be fun.

Oh my lord, I hated this idea. Seemed like nothing other than a 'Hey, let's make Bebeliths nonsensically mysterious, how can we do that?' sort of thing.

My list:
The Molydeus (of course)
Bulezau
The Cataboligne Demon updated to 3.5
Spyder-Fiends!
More non-tanar'ri demons. Everything is a tanar'ri these days, how about something else?
Varrangoins
Eyewings
Shadow Demons (and more info on them)
Info on some lesser used Demonic Lords (Vucarik, Kostchtchie, Baphomet, Rhyxali)
A complete listing of established Abyssal Layers, with brief descriptions an writeups on some of the more famous ones.

 

[BOZ]

well, either Baphomet or Kostchtchie are likely to be in issue #341 of Dragon (unless they decided to go with someone else - but my money is on "no" for that)

A complete listing of established Abyssal Layers, with brief descriptions an writeups on some of the more famous ones.

this seems very, very likely.

 

[Pants]

well, either Baphomet or Kostchtchie are likely to be in issue #341 of Dragon (unless they decided to go with someone else - but my money is on "no" for that)

Kostchtchie! Kostchtchie! Kostchtchie!

 

[Shemeska]

Bulezau

Indeed. I've used them pretty often in my current campaign, converting them on the fly for the most part. Would be good to see them in 3e.

Spyder-Fiends!

Not really a fan of these guys. In fact, I'm not a fan of alot of anything even vaguely related to the Queen of Chaos / Miska the Wolf Spider thing. It struck me as a goofy hangover of very early stuff which never meshed well with later material. Constructive detail is rarely a bad thing, but these guys stick out like a sore thumb versus the rest of the Abyss, so color me skeptical on anything dealing with them. You'd have to really do a spectacular job to convince me of merit for these guys, but it's not a lost cause, and I could still be convinced otherwise.

Varrangoins
Eyewings
Shadow Demons (and more info on them)

Indeed. They're ripe for additional material.