Fiendish Codex I - What do you want to see in it?

[Pants]

I don't recall the Blood War being mentioned at all.

I believe the BW is mentioned in passing in the part of the adventure involving the pit fiend. I think it's only mentioned in passing though.

And the L vs C war of the Rod of 7 parts mythos isn't mentioned in the chronology of the Blood War, even stretching back to the origin of the Tanar'ri, and you'd think that it would have been if it, the Queen of Chaos' war, was anywhere near the size that it claims. But it, and she, aren't even name dropped.

Because it was created later on in 2e
Then again, the Abyss, with near infinite/infinite layers, a Demonic Lord could certainly field armies of that size without severely inhibiting the Blood war effort.

They seem both uninvolved and irrelevant to the Blood War.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The Queen of Chaos and the Wind Dukes might simply not care about that particular L vs C struggle. They might see their particular struggle as more important than the Blood War. Whether such a thing is or isn't true would, of course, be left vague.

And since while the Queen of Chaos isn't a Tanar'ri, or even from the Abyss, her consort Miska was, so her war has to have happened at some point after the rise of the Tanar'ri and the start of the Blood War.

Miska came later on, no?

As such, the only way to really rationalize it all is to radically scale back the scale of the Queen of Chaos vs Wind Duke war actually was. I generally keep it intact, no need to outright toss it all, but I have it confined to a scattered number of prime material worlds, and largely happening as something outside of the scope of the Blood War, and small enough to not gather the attention of other groups. I saw it as largely the self involved schemes of a minor abyssal lord, hoping to gain in power at home, and his patron, the self titled queen of chaos

Which is a good way of rationalizing it, IMO.
No need to toss it out, there's some good ideas in there.

(who was from pandemonium IIRC).

I thought the Queen of Chaos was from Limbo?

 

[Ripzerai]

The war between the Wind Dukes and the Queen of Chaos primarily took place on the Material Plane, I suspect. The Wind Dukes were almost entirely inner planar creatures, while the Material Plane would have been their primary battleground, rather than the Outer Planes. The Queen of Chaos also enlisted the ooze baron Bwimb to her side, according to Dungeon #129, so again that supports the inner/material thesis.

That alone would probably keep it off of Hellbound's radar.

And, of course, there were other major lower planar events that didn't make the Hellbound timeline: the Reckoning is a big one (unless it's the same as the Rebellion of the Inferiors in Baator, which is possible although superficially their descriptions seem different - the former may also have led directly into the latter). The imprisonments of Graz'zt, Fraz-Urb'luu, and Zuggtmoy might qualify too, as they took place within such a short timeframe and must have really shaken up the Abyss (and ultimately helped cause Orcus' death). We also learned nothing in Hellbound about when the Dark Eight were founded, although we later learned this happened after the Reckoning and it must have happened before or during the Rebellion of the Inferiors, since the Dark Eight ended both conflicts. The other big event that went unmentioned was the expansion of the illithid empire, which is said to have been worrying enough caused the Blood War to pause for a time (only one of three times in history that this has happened, the other two being the routing of the celestials and the Ghoresh Chasm incident).

In fact, that's what I'd like to see: a unified timeline that reconciles all these events with the Hellbound timeline. Yes, the Aaqa war too, even though it wasn't really a lower planar war.

I believe the Queen of Chaos was a native of Limbo, which I guess would have made her one of the primal True Slaadi, like Ssendam and Ygorl. Slaadi definitely fought with the Queen of Chaos' armies.

Miska was imprisoned in the fourth layer of Pandemonium.

 

[Ripzerai]

On the Chaos side, the armies included slaadi, vrocks, abyssal ghouls, oculus demons (who are apparently pre-tanar'ric demons descended from one of the beholder Great Mother's matings with a nameless creature of the Abyss), beholders, ooze paraelementals, possibly yochlols (there's a reference to "tentacled demons"), and of course spyder-fiends.

On the Law side, they seem to have been mostly vaati, elemental weirds, djinn, wind warriors, invisible stalkers, and other air elementals. There may have been an inevitable or two.

Again, this is from Dungeon #129.

The oculus demons swore allegiance to the Queen of Chaos before the rise of the tanar'ri (Dun129). Miska the Wolf-Spider was only the last of her generals, eons later. The spyder-fiends seem to be the children of Miska and the Queen. [Monstrous Compendium Annual #4]

The Book of Artifacts says neither the Wind Dukes nor the Queen of Chaos spared any thought for Good or Evil, but perhaps the Queen's pure chaos became compromised as her alliance with creatures from the Abyss grew more entangled, or when she became an Abyssal Lord in her own right.

My source that the Queen of Chaos is from Limbo is the Creature Catalog.

 

[BOZ]

i made sure to point out http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2781714&postcount=13 that the elements from the Rod of Seven Parts adventure (Queen of Chaos, Miksa the Wolf-Spider, Battle of Pesh, Wind Dukes of Aaqa) have existed since at least the very beginning of the Second Edition of AD&D, and were in all likelihood invented to have a backstory for the item for the DMG in 1989. these elements, as far as i can recall, remained unused until the Ro7P boxed set came out.

My source that the Queen of Chaos is from Limbo is the Creature Catalog.

weird! i know i did not do that conversion, so i don't know where that info came from. could be the boxed set or something else; i have no idea.

 

[Pants]

weird! i know i did not do that conversion, so i don't know where that info came from. could be the boxed set or something else; i have no idea.

"The Queen of Chaos is a native of Limbo who rules the Steaming Fen."

Right in her stat write-up in the box set. Couldn't be anymore clear-cut.

 

[Shemeska]

I thought the Queen of Chaos was from Limbo?

I confused where she was originally from with where Miska had been imprisoned. Mea culpa.

And actually, I don't mind the idea, and even take a shine to the idea of her being a flawed, 'fallen' original Slaadi that was corrupted by evil and possibly exiled from Limbo by Ygorl and Ssendam. It would make that she does evil, but doesn't view it, or good, as important as the other axis of her alignment, make sense. It'd also work in how she isn't exactly on the ins with the rest of the Abyss, or have any involvement in the Blood War.

The inner planar/prime focus that Dungeon took on it makes it easier to stomach since it doesn't impinge on the Blood War. Different focus and different battleground, so no biggie.

 

[Erik Mona]

And since while the Queen of Chaos isn't a Tanar'ri, or even from the Abyss, her consort Miska was, so her war has to have happened at some point after the rise of the Tanar'ri and the start of the Blood War. As such, the only way to really rationalize it all is to radically scale back the scale of the Queen of Chaos vs Wind Duke war actually was. I generally keep it intact, no need to outright toss it all, but I have it confined to a scattered number of prime material worlds, and largely happening as something outside of the scope of the Blood War, and small enough to not gather the attention of other groups. I saw it as largely the self involved schemes of a minor abyssal lord, hoping to gain in power at home, and his patron, the self titled queen of chaos (who was from pandemonium IIRC).

Quite absent what may or may not be in Hordes of the Abyss, my "take" on this Law/Chaos conflict can be divined by a close reading of "The Whispering Cairn" and Wolfgang Baur's "A Gathering of Winds" in the Age of Worms Adventure Path currently being published in Dungeon.

--Erik

 

[BrooklynKnight]

Spoiler

One should also mention that these adventures actually put a peice of the rod into the hands of the party!

 

[arntof]

..the idea of her being a flawed, 'fallen' original Slaadi that was corrupted by evil and possibly exiled from Limbo by Ygorl and Ssendam.

Why would they do this? And are they even able to exile creatures at their own power level(as she most likely is)?

 

[Aaron L]

I want more races of demons than just tanar'ri. Give me things like tanar'ri, jegad'da, mekroth, whatever. I dont like that there are tanar'ri, and then everything else is just a generic demon. Its how Ive accepted the stupid made up word that there are other types of demons out there, so show them!


I want stats for the archdemons, but worthy stats, with real reasons why they arent swatted down by solars and good gods out of hand. Dont be afraid to make Demogorgon CR 50. Hes earned it.


I want some Abyssal layers listed and described.


I want some political info. Actually, I want lots of political info.

I want cults, cult info, and more cult info. Demon worshippers, witches, summoners, and bad stuff.


I want demon specific PRCs to flesh out mutant/alternate/aberrant demons, or demons with soecial training.

I want demon magic, demonic spells, maybe spells that can only be cast by demons, and truly horrific demonic abilities. A demon that can pull out your soul would be cool.



As others have said, I want a molydeus I used to draw those suckers in high school just cuz they were so cool.


I want oldschool style archdemon amulet rules, something where at a certain level of power a demon can actually seperate his soul from his physical form and put it into a phylactery (like a lich or something) like in 1E. I houseruled this for my own game, but Id like to see something like it from actual game designers.


Military info to go with the political info. I want to know whos fighting who, with what, where, and how. I want some names of demons hordes, commanders of legions, and stuff like that.


I want rules for how demons rise into uniqueness, how balor Bob becomes Boberifficus the demon lord who looks and has powers nothing like a balor anymore after he becomes an archdemon. Maybe combine it with phylactery rules so that when a demon becomes powerful enough he can seperate his soul and alter his body and become an archdemon. Hmmm.... I think Ill make my own rules for that if they dont...

I want spells to chain demons to my will! Cacodemon! Goddang, where has that good old classic demon slave stuff gone?? Summoning a minor demon for a minute aint nothing, I want a bound demonic servant.

I want mechanics for selling your soul and getting something out of it. Or maybe thats too diabolical and will be reserved for them?

I want a whole lot I guess. I like demons a lot.