Fiendish Codex I - What do you want to see in it?

[Razz]

I want to see:

---3.5 updates to the demons in BoVD (bar-lgura, shadow demon, rutterkin, chasme, etc.)
---3.5 updates to the Demon Princes/Queens in BoVD
---Conversions of old abyssal inhabitants like the Molydeus (tanar'ri) and that goat-headed tanar'ri from the PS Monster Compendium II (forgot the name) and others.
---A ranger-geared PrC that specializes in hunting fiends/demons. I have a player who, for his CG aasimar ranger, could only find the Foe Hunter PrC from Masters of the Wild fitting for his fiend-slaying ranger. I hope there're more PrC geared towards hunting down fiends.
---More vile spells
---A template for Fallen Celestials for once!

If I think of more I'll post them.

 

[Ripzerai]

I presume he was, because the Spyder fiends that he and the Queen of Chaos produced were specifically Tanar'ri. I'd check on him specifically in the Rod of 7 Parts box but I don't have a copy handy.

"The spyder-fiends are a subrace of tanar'ri that serve the Queen of Chaos. Sages speculate that the original spyder-fiends were the spawn of the Queen of Chaos and Miska the Wolf-spider, the queen's lover and general." - Monstrous Compendium Annual, Volume 4.

So yeah, although it's interesting that they aren't listed under the greater tanar'ri entry. Uridezu, or rat-fiends, are found under "Tanar'ri, Lesser - Uridezu" while spyder-fiends are just under "Spyder-Fiend." That's possibly just a matter of convenience, since there are five spyder-fiend subtypes and this way they don't have to be sub-subtypes.

 

[Evilhalfling]

A few new or revised demons -
more demonlords in the style of Dragon articals -
Goals, modus operendi, politics. info on layer, prestige class cultists, aspect, perhaps a new spell or magic item. I don't use actual archfiend stats, but they are handy for baseing traps, aspects, unique magical effects, etc on.

It should be compatible with but not complete reprints of dragon articals.
All this I think Ill get


a 20 lvl demon cultist class- perhaps designed to lead into prestige classes- bonus vile feats etc...
I want low level thugs!

I would love a sample demonic army.

A few demon crafted artifacts, or powerful unique items and weapons.
- Eye of Deception, Iwggwin's Baton, Zuggomonies Cauldron (or similar)

One or two well crafted personalities for existing fiends - Vrock, Babu, Hertzou all have a 14 int - what are they like in non-combat situations? What do they spend their time and energy on?

 

[Ripzerai]

Just out of curiousity, what's the flavor text that suggests the Death Slaad are evil?

"The greatest of their kind, these few powerful slaadi have achieved near-immortal longevity through evil ceremonies."

They were listed as chaotic neutral, though, which has bugged a lot of people for a long time. Either we assume the ceremonies weren't as evil as they're made out to be (my preference), or we assume that death slaadi have in fact been corrupted from their formally neutral state.

2nd edition in general, starting with the Outer Planes Appendix to the Monstrous Compendium, tried to make much of slaadi malevolence, and Planescape never fully purged them of it. Unfortunately, 3rd edition has continued in that vein. 1st edition's original treatment of them was more benign, more in keeping with a chaotic neutral race.

 

[Evilhalfling]

. 1st edition's original treatment of them was more benign, more in keeping with a chaotic neutral race.

Really? I always just saw them as killing machines - In the low damage enviorment of 1st ed 20-64 damage(maximum) from multiple attacks was huge. Nothing in the FF explains why they are not CE. It does not specifically call them evil but refers to "missions of woe" on the prime and the fact that red Slaadi frequently gather slaves.

 

[Shemeska]

Really? I always just saw them as killing machines - In the low damage enviorment of 1st ed 20-64 damage(maximum) from multiple attacks was huge. Nothing in the FF explains why they are not CE. It does not specifically call them evil but refers to "missions of woe" on the prime and the fact that red Slaadi frequently gather slaves.

Eh. Being a killing machine doesn't mean you're evil.

They spread chaos and discord at their whimsy when they can, which oftentimes ends poorly for folks, but they're not doing it for the same reasons as say, a Tanar'ri might do something similar. I never gathered at all that the original FF slaadi were anything but pure CN.

A slaad might burn down a town to watch it burn and admire the sparkling pops of people and such trapped in the wreckage. A CE fiend would go in, trap the people in the buildings, torture them a bit, and then burn them alive so it could appreciate the extent of their agony. But different. The slaad is interested in the chaos of act, but not the evil. And evil, or good, that occurs, is incidental.

Slaadi gather captives because they breed by laying eggs or infecting people with a disease to make more slaadi.

 

[Pants]

The wording is key there I think. Saying "...just as any other tanar'ri can" is an inclusive statement. Had they not meant for Miska to be Tanar'ri they would have said that he could be killed '...just like Tanar'ri can be' which wouldn't have been an inclusive statement.

Plus, the fact that the Spyder fiends are specifically made out to be a tanar'ri sub-race adds to it.

Yeah, I agree with you.
He's a Tanar'ri.

"The greatest of their kind, these few powerful slaadi have achieved near-immortal longevity through evil ceremonies."

Actually, there's more to it than that.
I don't have my books handy, but the next paragraph suggests that Death Slaad organize raids to capture slaves for breeding pits in order to 'propagate the Slaadi race.'

Combine that with the statement above and that's damn evil.

I can do a direct quote later if anyone wants to, I'm at work atm.

 

[Ripzerai]

Actually, there's more to it than that.
I don't have my books handy, but the next paragraph suggests that Death Slaad organize raids to capture slaves for breeding pits in order to 'propagate the Slaadi race.'

Combine that with the statement above and that's damn evil.

No, it's not. The actual quote is,

"Many of the half-dozen known death slaadi work to propagate their race, marshalling mobs of red and blue slaadi to invade small villages on the Lower Planes. They imprison the population as hosts and incubate a new generation of slaadi."

The important part of this is the fact it takes place on the Lower Planes. This would be evil if these were villages of mortals, and not villages of minor fiends. However, it doesn't specify. Both Hellbound and Faces of Evil said that slaadi on the lower planes primarily infect fiends, though.

From Hellbound:

All told, as a fighting force, the slaadi don't make a
tremendous difference in the Blood War. They much prefer
to scavenge war-torn battlefields. eating the carrion and
capturing wounded sods to further the race. See, they always
need fresh, living bodies - red slaadi bury their eggs
in the berks and wait for the babies to hatch. The hosts die
in a grisly internal explosion, and the new offspring feed on
the remains. And the slaadi aren't particular; both baatezu
and tanar'ri make fine incubators.

Sometimes, fiends pass their captives over to red slaadi
forces - death by egg-burst is a gruesomely painhl way to
die. The slaadi themselves leap at the chance, because children
born from fiend hosts tend to be stronger and more
able to distinguish themselves. And if, for some reason, a
fiend doesn't prove a suitable host, it still makes a mighty
tasty meal.

It's also worth mentioning that, a paragraph later:

As a rule, the slaadi on Limbo are chaotic neutral, but
it's thought that those who spend time on the Lower Planes
get corrupted. It's no dark that the slaadi grow more cruel in
order to survive those hateful planes, but none can say if the
effect is permanent. The biologist Riantrek Jaa [Pl/Q tief-
IingiBelievers of the Source/N) once set out find a *corrupted"
slaad and take it back to Limbo to see if its essential
chaotic nature would return, but she was never heard from
again.

This would at least partially justify any atrocities commited by slaadi in the Lower Planes without requiring them to be evil in basic nature. It might also be intended as an excuse for all negative slaad flavor text (any slaadi who seem more malignant than neutral have been corrupted by too much time in the Lower Planes; the rest are purely chaotic neutral).

...although Hellbound also gives an example of a powerful slaad who has become openly good in order to "balance" the evil of the Lower Planes.

 

[arntof]

This would be evil if these were villages of mortals, and not villages of minor fiends.

Why isn`t it evil to to that if the opponents are fiends? I don`t see how that changes things.

 

[Pants]

No, it's not. The actual quote is,

"Many of the half-dozen known death slaadi work to propagate their race, marshalling mobs of red and blue slaadi to invade small villages on the Lower Planes. They imprison the population as hosts and incubate a new generation of slaadi."

The important part of this is the fact it takes place on the Lower Planes. This would be evil if these were villages of mortals, and not villages of minor fiends. However, it doesn't specify. Both Hellbound and Faces of Evil said that slaadi on the lower planes primarily infect fiends, though.

Hm, good point.

However, both Acheron and Pandemonium are Lower Planes right? Though they aren't particularly good places, they aren't bastions of 'everybody is evil'-dom.

All told, as a fighting force, the slaadi don't make a
tremendous difference in the Blood War. They much prefer
to scavenge war-torn battlefields. eating the carrion and
capturing wounded sods to further the race. See, they always
need fresh, living bodies - red slaadi bury their eggs
in the berks and wait for the babies to hatch. The hosts die
in a grisly internal explosion, and the new offspring feed on
the remains. And the slaadi aren't particular; both baatezu
and tanar'ri make fine incubators.

Sometimes, fiends pass their captives over to red slaadi
forces - death by egg-burst is a gruesomely painhl way to
die. The slaadi themselves leap at the chance, because children
born from fiend hosts tend to be stronger and more
able to distinguish themselves. And if, for some reason, a
fiend doesn't prove a suitable host, it still makes a mighty
tasty meal.

This only mentions what the slaad do in the Blood War. Not very good evidence. Considering that the Blood War is fiends vs fiends, they wouldn't have much of a chance to infect many non-fiends.

This would at least partially justify any atrocities commited by slaadi in the Lower Planes without requiring them to be evil in basic nature. It might also be intended as an excuse for all negative slaad flavor text (any slaadi who seem more malignant than neutral have been corrupted by too much time in the Lower Planes; the rest are purely chaotic neutral).

...although Hellbound also gives an example of a powerful slaad who has become openly good in order to "balance" the evil of the Lower Planes.

I still think it leaves rather vague...