Fiendish Codex I - What do you want to see in it?

[Ripzerai]

Why isn`t it evil to to that if the opponents are fiends? I don`t see how that changes things.

Because transforming fiends into slaadi is an improvement, and even paladins (even eladrins!) are allowed to kill fiends with impunity.

 

[Ripzerai]

However, both Acheron and Pandemonium are Lower Planes right? Though they aren't particularly good places, they aren't bastions of 'everybody is evil'-dom.

They're seldom found there because of the distinct lack of Blood War battles. They seek out the Blood War, which they have little business in, primarily for reproductive purposes (and to kill the hated lawful baatezu, if they remember and don't get confused about who's who).

Considering that the Blood War is fiends vs fiends

Well, not entirely. There are slaadi and modrons involved, an occasional celestial host, and plentiful mortal mercenaries.

I still think it leaves rather vague...

Vague, yeah, but so what? I don't need to prove that 2nd edition death slaadi weren't evil because it said they weren't right in their stat block. If there's any uncertainty at all, the stat block seems to be the tie-breaker.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I want The Fiendish Codex to include a fifty-dollar bill.

That way, everybody wins!

 

[BOZ]

Well, not entirely. There are slaadi and modrons involved, an occasional celestial host, and plentiful mortal mercenaries.

true, but the main antagonists are the fiends. the rest of those are merely buttinskis.

 

[demiurge1138]

I want The Fiendish Codex to include a fifty-dollar bill.

That way, everybody wins!

That is an excellent idea. I second the motion.

Demiurge out.

 

[Digital Archon]

i feel ya there.

from the 2E DMG (1989):

snip

The stuff about Miska didn't exist in the original version of the Rod of Seven Parts, back in 74. It talks about the Wind Dukes of Aqaa and Pesh for a bit, and sounds quite a bit like something lifted from Moorcock, actually. There is also a minor change in that "as soon as three joining sections are fitted together, the posessor is unable to let go of the Rod" as opposed to just taking it everywhere. And of course, the powers are not defined in the book, but left to the GM, as was pretty standard for 1E artifacts.

 

[BOZ]

That is an excellent idea. I second the motion.

Demiurge out.

you do understand that the price for the book rises by $50 with such a change, don't you?

 

[demiurge1138]

you do understand that the price for the book rises by $50 with such a change, don't you?

But with an automatic $50 rebate!

Demiurge out.

 

[Pants]

Vague, yeah, but so what?

Actually, this is what the whole argument is based around.

*Ignoring that Death Slaadi are now CE in 3.x for no reason that I can fathom.

Is there a precedent for Death Slaadi being CE in 3.5? Yes there is. Read the PSMCI. I don't really care if you don't like it. It's right there in the book.

That's all I was really arguing. Then you posted up quotes from other books, which I found didn't really prove much of anything (IMO of course).

I don't need to prove that 2nd edition death slaadi weren't evil because it said they weren't right in their stat block. If there's any uncertainty at all, the stat block seems to be the tie-breaker.

Then what about the flavor-text? Sounds sloppy to me. Classic case of flavor not matching up with abilities.

 

[Ripzerai]

Actually, this is what the whole argument is based around.

What happened is you said there was precedent for slaadi being CE in 2e. I agreed with you, noting the "evil rituals" bit in the text, but said that I had always hated that bit of flavor text.

You were still unsatisfied and tried to cite the "lower planar slavery" bit as additional evidence. I said that was inconclusive, as killing lower planar natives isn't necessarily evil.

2e and 1e had them as always chaotic neutral, which is the whole point of their existence; there needs to be a race that's the chaotic equivalent of modrons, or the neutral equivalent of tanar'ri and eladrins. That's the role slaadi were originally designed to fill.

3e looked at some of the (stupid) flavor text from 2nd edition and thought about how cool death slaad assassins would be; consequently, someone thought this trumped cosmological consistency.

Seems like a classic example of bad flavor text not matching up with a creature's intended role.