Fiendish Codex II next month--Any scoop/rumors/etc.?

[morbiczer]

As far as locations in the layers, is 'The Garden' mentioned on Avernus? The City of Man, and the City of Diplomacy on deeper layers (layer 7 IIRC)?

No, no, and no. But on layer 7 (Maladomini) there is a place called Offalion, which is a reconstruction of a city of the Material Planes, where devils learn the ways of men. There is also a city called Grenpoli on the same layer, where all sort of violence is forbidden, and where devils can meet for diplomacy without having to fear a fight. Are these the two cities you are looking for?

And is the history of the Dark 8 detailed, and are the ministries run by its members fleshed out at all?

No real history given. The eight members are named, and a sentence or two about what each of them does, not more.

God Street? At first this seemed to me like a crazy idea, but I can see great potential in it after considering it for a while. Can you elaborate on this? I am sure Dis can be great to read about.

Basicaly when a new LE deity is created (either because some great hero starts to get worshipped or even some none existing entity attracts enough worshipers), than the new deity appears on God Street, and he immediatly starts out to construct his own realm on God Street. There are lots and lots of gods here, only gods which have followers on many worlds have their own realms on one of the layers. The write-up suggests that unique LE deities from homebrew settings would "live" here. God Street seems to be infinitely long. Only divine casters can get there unless through divine intervention, even they have to make a DC 20 caster level check.

 

[morbiczer]

Okay, I'll be out of town for three days, so I won't be able to post until then here.

 

[RichGreen]

Okay, I'll be out of town for three days, so I won't be able to post until then here.

Thanks for all the info!


Richard

 

[Ash Mantle]

These two monsters appear in the description of the layer of Minauros and Malbolge respectively, not in the "monster chapter", that's why I didn't see them when I was writing up the list of monsters found in the book.

Indeed, but they would have been mentioned in the contents, right?

I hope you'll have the decency to come back with a "sorry" when it turns out that everything I say about the book is true.

I'll reserve the right until I actually see it, until then what you say may or may not be truthful; this is only logical .

I'm surprised why the authors haven't refuted your claims though.

 

[Mark Hope]

Indeed, but they would have been mentioned in the contents, right?



I'll reserve the right until I actually see it, until then what you say may or may not be truthful; this is only logical .

I'm surprised why the authors haven't refuted your claims though.

Maybe because he's telling the truth? Quit being so rude.

 

[arntof]

I think the book sounds very nice, actually..in case I came across as negative.

"Basically when a new LE deity is created (either because some great hero starts to get worshipped or even some none existing entity attracts enough worshipers), than the new deity appears on God Street, and he immediatly starts out to construct his own realm on God Street. There are lots and lots of gods here, only gods which have followers on many worlds have their own realms on one of the layers. The write-up suggests that unique LE deities from homebrew settings would "live" here. God Street seems to be infinitely long. Only divine casters can get there unless through divine intervention, even they have to make a DC 20 caster level check."

This section just sounds great

 

[Razz]

Darn, no mention of the Garden...

I liked that location the first time I read about it in Planes of Law boxed set.. My plan with it back in 2E Planescape was to make it the "Lost Garden of Eden" type of location. I had an idea based off of Genesis about the Garden being once a paradise lost thanks to the sins of mankind and the location kept in Avernus so they could never return to it. But it still maintained it's divine power, hence one reason why the devils steered clear from it.

Pretty cool background I had sketched up for it. Still could use it, but I was hoping they would've elaborated more on the Garden.

 

[sciborg2]

This God Street thing sounds sort of weird, but also cool in some respects. It just feels that a lot of this stuff you're telling us if very different than what we'd expect. This is why people like myself don't want to believe you have the book....not to accuse, merely to say that we'd just rather not believe this is the product that is coming down the pipeline in a few days...

 

[Ripzerai]

No, no, and no. But on layer 7 (Maladomini) there is a place called Offalion, which is a reconstruction of a city of the Material Planes, where devils learn the ways of men. There is also a city called Grenpoli on the same layer, where all sort of violence is forbidden, and where devils can meet for diplomacy without having to fear a fight. Are these the two cities you are looking for?

Yes, they are. Grenpoli is the City of Diplomacy, and Offalion sounds like the City of Man. So it has a name, now; that's cool.

I'm completely convinced you have the book, by the way.

No real history given. The eight members are named, and a sentence or two about what each of them does, not more.

Oh, but each of them has a different task? Baalzephon is in charge of supply, and Dagos in the marshal of the hosts, and Furcas is in charge of mortal affairs?

I actually think Gods Street is a pretty awesome idea. I'm glad they're making use of the paeliryon. The nupperibos are handled correctly, minus the connection to the ancient Baatorians.

The bizarre living fortress they've made of the Hag is pretty cool, too. I didn't really like the idea of a night hag ruling a layer of Baator, but I love the idea of a surrealistic castle made from the still-living body of a night hag. And she can still be tied to the altraloths, as Shemmy suggested. And Lilith is still in the Hells, so really nothing is lost. Making Glasya a Lord of the Nine is better than Guide to Hell making her the ruler of the erinyes (they don't need another ruler).

I'm satisfied.

Not mentioning the ancient Baatorians at all (except for the ambiguous mention of Kintyre) is an opportunity wasted. DMs can't decide how to use them in their campaign if they've never heard of them at all.

Because the "angels" the baatezu are descended from are not, and apparently never were good, and apparently even precede the forces of Good and Evil, I'm okay with it. They're not
"aasimon" - angels in the Monster Manual sense - but something much older, something like the angels in this myth:

I'll state my belief that the angels were not a pure force of goodness as they have often been portrayed (by the churches of good powers, naturally!); they were simply the first planeborne race of all. Their spirits were unsullied by worries of moral or ethical issues -- vice and sin, as such, had not been invented, so their behaviour was not good by choice, as they had no alternative but to behave in the way they were intended to behave. Without 'evil', as such, there simply cannot be 'good'.

When Fiendish Codex II refers to "gods," I think it's talking about extremely primal beings who helped define the planes before they had even begun to form. These are not the "powers" that Hellbound introduces relatively late in the timeline, but the raw progenitors of Law, the equivalents of the baernaloths (who are the progenitors of Evil). This is what the Fiendish Codex I meant, anyway.

 

[Shemeska]

Yes, they are. Grenpoli is the City of Diplomacy, and Offalion sounds like the City of Man. So it has a name, now; that's cool.

Indeed, and it's a nice touch there.

Oh, but each of them has a different task? Baalzephon is in charge of supply, and Dagos in the marshal of the hosts, and Furcas is in charge of mortal affairs?

It'd be a shame if the Dark 8 weren't elaborated upon, given that they have more direct influence over the rank and file Baatezu than do any of the Lords of the 9.

I actually think Gods Street is a pretty awesome idea.

I'll reserve judgement till I read about it, but the idea has potential.

The bizarre living fortress they've made of the Hag is pretty cool, too. I didn't really like the idea of a night hag ruling a layer of Baator, but I love the idea of a surrealistic castle made from the still-living body of a night hag.

When you kill off a Lord of the 9, that's one of the more impressive ways of doing so. I heartily approve.

Not mentioning the ancient Baatorians at all (except for the ambiguous mention of Kintyre) is an opportunity wasted. DMs can't decide how to use them in their campaign if they've never heard of them at all.

It'll be a shame if they're entirely avoided in the book, but given that Kintyre etc are there, apparently as large unknowns to the Lord of the 8th, there's the implication of things there that are older than the Baatezu, which still preserves the mystery and the insinuations.

When Fiendish Codex II refers to "gods," I think it's talking about extremely primal beings who helped define the planes before they had even begun to form. These are not the "powers" that Hellbound introduces relatively late in the timeline, but the raw progenitors of Law, the equivalents of the baernaloths (who are the progenitors of Evil). This is what the Fiendish Codex I meant, anyway.

If it's phrased in that way, with Asmo et al as lawful servitors of primordial entities of Law at the dawn of the planes, then I'll buy it, and I'll savor it because it would fit with the idea of the meeting and mixing of the primal alignments, with Asmo etc being corrupted by the expanding influence of evil, but perhaps them later stamping out the Ancient Baatorians who were more Evil touched by Law than the other way around. But if it's talking about Asmo et al as fallen angels who served gods worshipped and empowered by mortals (aka all the current generation of gods), it comes off poorly and I'm inclined to believe much of the mythology is more myth than fact.

We'll see how the book words it exactly. Hopefully the wait will go quickly.