D&D (2024) Fighter brainstorm

Incenjucar

Legend
The need for a "training wheels" class is cited as a reason the fighter and martial classes need to default to simple, while complexity is handed off to magic in most cases.

Magic-users get to do things that are impossible for real people to do, and that's fine, but martial classes default to having fewer options even in combat than I've used in real life in the school yard.

Edit: I personally chafe at playing characters less capable than myself who should be MORE capable than myself unless things are very abstract. It's like when you're playing a "realistic" game but are unable to step over a knee-high fence or walk up a subtle incline. It's that much worse in a game that's not limited by programming constraints.
 
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The need for a "training wheels" class is cited as a reason the fighter and martial classes need to default to simple, while complexity is handed off to magic in most cases.

I think this idea is a bit of retroactive continuity. 5e Martials got the simple hammer because (to my knowledge) some trolls slammed the DND Next surveys saying the game was better if all martials were good at was combat and casters got everything else.

There being a need or want for an easy class to play for new players (which isn't unreasonable) didn't have anything to do with it.

And plus, from what else I know about how they ran Next, Barbarians and the original Fighters were never run together concurrently, so even if it wasn't just trolls undermining the survey, the survey was still poor because some people were wanting a simpler martial and instead of presenting the Barbarian as that option (which it already was), they decided to just nerf the Fighter.
 

The need for a "training wheels" class is cited as a reason the fighter and martial classes need to default to simple, while complexity is handed off to magic in most cases.
They could make the Adventurer class, and make it super middle of the road in a lot of things, to let new players dabble with different options, but in a simple way.

Give them light and medium armor, martial weapon training, Str and Dex saves, d12 HP (because it sucks to get run over by a truck while you're on training wheels). At 1st level, have them automatically know Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, and Spare the Dying, plus include a list of like 5 attack cantrips that they pick one of.

And give them an ability called Be Prepared, where whenever they complete a short rest they can pick Combat, Exploration, Social, or Stealth, and they get the ability to one time automatically treat a d20 roll related to that pillar of the game as a 15, sort of guaranteeing success in most circumstances.

At 2nd level, they can pick a fighting style and also one spell each from a small list of arcane, divine, and druidic spells, which they can cast once per short rest.

And there is not 3rd level. They have to multiclass at that point.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Fighters. Barbarians. A-S tier classes right now. With simple and more complex options.

Also, the "training-wheels class" expression is offensive. Some folks just prefer a simpler class, not because they are stupid or don't know the rules, but because that's what they enjoy.
I'll reiterate my belief that a class with options is superior to one without. I don't think the game should be built with inferior class options, or, if absolutely necessary, they should specifically called out as such.
 

Incenjucar

Legend
You can also just build very simple options for a given class. 4E fighters could be very simple if you just picked simple powers, but could also be chess masters instead. You can then highlight that these are the simplest options for folks who are looking for a default.
 

I think the warrior group's gimmick should be "second half superstars", or the guys and gals who really shine in the big fights when the casters are down to cantrips, and the rogue is making a run for it. I could see the fighter getting some kind of enhanced fighting styles that kick in when they are bloodied (in the 4e sense). Basically, when the fight goes long, the whole "fighters can only do stuff that humans can do" goes out the window.
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
'Second half superstars' is just 'second fiddle' with extra steps, especially if it depends on the already arduous and annoying way too many fights per day resource model.

How about everyone get to be cool all the time? No mages running out of batteries and not getting to be mages late in the day; no martials waiting for that other bad thing to happen.
 

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
You can also just build very simple options for a given class. 4E fighters could be very simple if you just picked simple powers, but could also be chess masters instead. You can then highlight that these are the simplest options for folks who are looking for a default.
Heck, the way the One D&D playtest is going what with giving casters a default selection of spells, giving fighters a default selection of maneuvers/powers/stances/whatever would solve the "problem" of the simple fighter.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
'Second half superstars' is just 'second fiddle' with extra steps, especially if it depends on the already arduous and annoying way too many fights per day resource model.

How about everyone get to be cool all the time? No mages running out of batteries and not getting to be mages late in the day; no martials waiting for that other bad thing to happen.
I would like to bring back Bloodied and have things that trigger off of it, but I agree; there's no reason to have classes that have to jump through hoops or "wait their turn" to be remarkable.

A lot of people think players need to have resources that run out, to keep people from adventuring forever. At my age, time itself is the limiter for how much adventuring we get to do- you play for four-five hours, and suddenly everyone is tired or worrying about getting home for dinner, or up for work on time the next day. A few months down the road, everyone's schedules might fall apart, long before you have to worry about anyone reaching "super high level".

A game can be challenging without trying to drain players down to their last hit points all the time, and death can still happen for the foolish and unlucky even if you have a full complement of powers.
 

Clint_L

Hero
I'll reiterate my belief that a class with options is superior to one without. I don't think the game should be built with inferior class options, or, if absolutely necessary, they should specifically called out as such.
I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating and barbarian and fighter are both two of the most popular classes and consistently highly ranked. So I think your premise is incorrect based on actual game play results.

Also, “inferior” is very subjective. Fighters/barbarians might not have as many options as bards, but the ones they have are very good. Action surge? Rage?
 

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