Fighter problems

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I don't think I've seen this topic on ENWorld in ages, but it's common on the WotC boards.

There have been complaints about the fighter, which I've seen summarized as follows:

1- Inability to mimic many warrior archetypes due to limited skill set (generals, sheriffs, sentinels, commandos, etc.)
2- Lack of unique abilities (anyone can take feats)
3- Lack of scaling abilities (such that at high levels they are still doing what they did at low levels).
4- Vulnerability to Will Save spells and effects.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=299836&page=1&pp=30

I don't necessarily agree with #4, and I think the swashbuckler concept should be added to #1, but otherwise I agree with this.

#3 is, I think, the most important thing. There's a very small number of BAB +13 or higher feats, whether for fighters specifically or for fighting classes in general, whereas (as an example) there's a huge number of spells of 7th-level+ in the Player's Handbook. As a result, fighters "plateau" at 12th-level.

I'm not looking for huge changes like giving fighters more skill points or more feats, I'm simply looking for high BAB feats - preferably those that don't copy class abilities of other core classes.

ENWorld is a veritable well of creativity. Do any of you have good fighter-style feat ideas?

I've tried to create my own feats, but even when I created some that I thought were "broken" I was told (by multiple respondents and a game designer) that it wasn't any more powerful than Improved Critical.

Here's the example:
Your Weapon Is My Weapon [Fighter, General]
Instead of disarming a melee weapon, you can control it and strike the wielder's allies.
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, BAB +8
Benefit: You can make an opposed disarm check against a creature wielding a melee weapon, as if disarming a weapon, but instead of removing it from your opponent's hand (or other appendages) you can control a weapon. Your opponent can free the weapon with a successful disarm check (does not draw an attack of opportunity even if they do not have Improved Disarm or a similar ability).

You can strike another opponent within the reach of that weapon with the weapon. You make an attack roll against that opponent, using your attack roll modifiers except for Strength or Dexterity (use your opponent's ability score), with a -4 penalty. (You can only use Dexterity if you are controlling a light weapon and have Weapon Finesse.)

You cannot make attacks of opportunity while controlling another creature's weapon, nor do you threaten any areas. Your opponent cannot attempt to make any attacks of opportunity until they regain control of their weapon.

 

[Schmoe]

I absolutely agree. High-powered feats with difficult pre-reqs make following a fighter path more attractive. I came up with a few, but I'd love to see others. Here's one:

Deadly Critical
Prerequisites: Greater Weapon Focus, BAB +12
Benefit: The critical multiplier of your chosen weapon is doubled (remember double doubling is really tripling, etc.)

I also have some others. Furious Charge allows you to take an attack of opportunity at any opponent you threaten along the path of a charge. Followthrough allows you to take a "free" 5' step to maintain a threat against an opponent who takes a 5' step away from you. I don't remember the prereqs for the feats, but I can look them up when I get home tonight.

 

[Ibram]

The lack of skill points is easy enough to deal with... either get rid of class skills altogether or increase the number of skill points available to the Fighter.

IMC: I did both, removing the concept of class skills and granting all the classes +4 skill points.

two ties in with one as well... but that can be balanced by creating your own fighter specific feats to mimic such abilities.

IMC: To allow for a wider variety of fighter types I created three feats that allowed mental stats (Wis, Int, Cha) to be added to a characters AC. This allows people to create characters that do not rely on armor (such as the Swashbuckler).

4 is a bit trickier... though a DM could house rule the high save around to different saves to mimic different types of fighter (Ref for swashbucklers, Will for officer types).

 

[DanMcS]

There should be some high-level fighter abilities that aren't feats, like the high-level rogue abilities, so no-one else can take them.

You can do worse than adapting some charms from Exalted for this purpose. You end up with semi-magical fighter tricks.

Iron Raptor Technique:
The PC can throw his melee weapon with a range increment of 10'; make the attack as though it were a melee attack roll. The weapon rebounds back to the thrower's hand immediately.

Other options include tweaking stuff from the basic D&D rules:
Energized Weapon: Choose an energy weapon enhancement (flaming, frost, shocking, etc). As a standard action, you can activate this on any weapon you hold.

You can take this more than once, either to select another energy type, or to upgrade one you possess to the "burst" version (flaming burst).

 

[takyris]

Or, for more realistic but still cinematic, check out the combat maneuvers in the Conan RPG. Their pre-reqs make them tough for a lot of people to get anyway, but you can also just flat-out require a certain number of fighter levels to use them.

 

[Belen]

There are a few fixes.

Weapons Focus (Fighter): A fighter chooses a group (slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning). He has focus in all weapons of that group.

Weapons Specialization (Fighter): Same as Focus for effect.

4th level: Specialized weapons counts as magical.

8th level: Gains Mettle (Acts like evasion for Fort/Will saves)

12th level: Specialized weapon counts as one of the following: law, chaos, good, good or evil.

16th level: Improved Mettle (Acts as Improved Evasion for Fort/Will saves).

Bonus Feats: Gains additional bonus feats at 13, 16, 19.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I've rarely had problems with fighters at higher levels. Their sheer number of feats allow them to perform some nice tricks that other classes simply arent' capable of doing. Even though the wizard gets a lot more firepower as he advances, the thing people are forgetting about is base damage. Take the most damaging spell a 20th level wizard can cast and comapre it agaisnt a 20th level fighter wielding a greatsword. The fighter is almost always going to win the sheet damage ratio. Is it going to be as big a kill sweep? No, but at 1st level, he can't compare with the mage's spell sleep either so it's not a big deal.

 

[Belen]

I've rarely had problems with fighters at higher levels. Their sheer number of feats allow them to perform some nice tricks that other classes simply arent' capable of doing. Even though the wizard gets a lot more firepower as he advances, the thing people are forgetting about is base damage. Take the most damaging spell a 20th level wizard can cast and comapre it agaisnt a 20th level fighter wielding a greatsword. The fighter is almost always going to win the sheet damage ratio. Is it going to be as big a kill sweep? No, but at 1st level, he can't compare with the mage's spell sleep either so it's not a big deal.

Not exactly true. Yes, a fighter can fo massive damage to one or two foes, but a mage can do 20d6 to all of them!

Heck, a mage can average a 30 point fiireball at 10th and do it to like 20 guys a round. That's 600 points of damagey goodness. Not to mention the mage can fly, be invis, have stoneskin....all without equipment.

 

[Soul]

Well, with feats like greater whirl wind attack, and combat reflexes, a fighter can set itself up to take out quite a few foes itself. I had a 4th Level rouge/5th level Wizard, with a high dex and combat reflexes that easly took out 20+ orcs (granted its a low hitdie beasty) just from attacks of oppertunity as they mobbed around me. Its just a matter of the right feats, and setting yourself up for the situation. Though I do somewhat agree that the fighter and the warrioresque classes in general could use something more. I' definately like the combat style feats from the complete warrior. Feat chains that represent styles of combat are always a plus, and can go a long way in allowing you to tailor your fighters for swashbucklers, sentinels, knights, etc..

 

[Caspian Marqine]

Hmm, an interesting quandry

Well, from what I've seen from high level pure fighters, without a good handle on the game mechanics and gear, you've got an tank with poor mobility. I'd say another level of weapon specialization and focus would be a start, and like others have said here and your sample feat, steal stuff from Anime (Exalted, tho they're kinda supernatural abilities) or Kungfu movies, take Hero for instance. Fighters from what I've seen, rely on good feat choices throughout creation and a solid concept, and a big weapon of some sort.

Having class and cross class skills kinda bites sometimes. It really pushes each character into a narrow archetype.


But ya, where are these other feats? I've never heard of them from you

http://www.eos-press.com/downloads.html

One note, check that link for the greyfoot fiction for Weapon of the Gods. Its not exactly a description of ingame play but I think its supposed to outline some form of legendary kungfu the main character uses.

Now we come to the problem of How do you want to do these feats? Generic or genre specific. What works in a Kungfu game may not work very well for the standard fantasy D&D game. Do think on that.




Jonathan