D&D General Fighter progression, need help

[MichaelSomething]

But how to compare hp + healing surges to simply hp in other editions?

Are you comparing Fighter to Fighter or Fighter with a Cleric to Fighter with a Cleric? Healing Surges will give a 4E Fighter the edge but a wand of cure light wounds can make the 3E Fighter eternally go on.

 

[Sacrosanct]

So what I"m seeing here (and confirming my suspicions by looking through the books), is that I shouldn't even bother. It would be like comparing D&D editions with WFRP or something, since the rules in 4e make it very much different from previous D&D editions, that there is no real way to do an analysis? Every other edition I can plot out "here is how a fighter gains in these categories compared to an equivalent monstrous opponent", but I can't really do that in 4e based on how the AEDU system/healing surges/power system works? 3e was challenging I will admit, when you start factoring in things like feats. But I'm lost when how to approach 4e. If you're saying it's not really possible to do it fairly, then I appreciate that for saving me a lot of time

 

[generic]

Short rests in 4e are 5 minutes.

5 minutes.

Furthermore, because all character progression is based on a chart that spans across all classes, it might be best to leave 4e alone.

 

[generic]

I actually like 4e, but given how encounter powers work, and the way healing surges function (don't forget that a 4e long rest is 6 hours, and you can take one twice per day), it might be best to skip 4e.

 

[Garthanos]

So what I"m seeing here (and confirming my suspicions by looking through the books), is that I shouldn't even bother. It would be like comparing D&D editions with WFRP or something, since the rules in 4e make it very much different from previous D&D editions, that there is no real way to do an analysis? Every other edition I can plot out "here is how a fighter gains in these categories compared to an equivalent monstrous opponent", but I can't really do that in 4e based on how the AEDU system/healing surges/power system works? 3e was challenging I will admit, when you start factoring in things like feats. But I'm lost when how to approach 4e. If you're saying it's not really possible to do it fairly, then I appreciate that for saving me a lot of time

Its tougher but maybe not for the reasons you think (surges mostly only impact if you have a healer spending an action doing a second wind isnt as efficient as marking the enemy and or cutting down the enemy)

Feats have the same wild ride in 4e as you had in 3e. My example above now has an enhanced cleave because of one. But fighters in 4e always have feats ... they do not always in 5e how have you decided to use that? Which subclass of 5e fighter are you using? that Cavalier has similar situational class features.

Tactical Choices
Does he use a daily? If he is feeling pressed he will pull it out.
Does the enemy stand beating on the fighter or try to get to the squishies = the first thing I mentioned can have a big impact. Is this one enemy on one fighter and No squishies to defend? this makes some of his abilities a lot less valuable and others more so and very much can make his damage output less in many cases.

White room analysis beats its head on a class with abilities that are situational or build dependent.

I adjusted my example Fighter above to have descriptions of what the abilities did if you are still interested. He is versatile enough but still built to be mostly a defender.

When you try and compare more advanced levels of 4e fighter it will only get harder as each fighter may be very different. Not just because of feats but because of power selection.

 

[Garthanos]

I actually like 4e, but given how encounter powers work, and the way healing surges function (don't forget that a 4e long rest is 6 hours, and you can take one twice per day

No only once per day...

• Duration: An extended rest is at least 6 hours long. (could be 8 or 10)
• Once per day: After you finish an extended rest, you have to wait 12 hours before you can begin another one.

https://dnd4.fandom.com/wiki/Extended_rest

its kind of weird in a 24 hours span you might squeeze in 2 if they bridge across 2 days
more of an anomaly than some sort of power up.

 

[Garthanos]

Short rests in 4e are 5 minutes.

And? its called catching your breath after an exertion not a lunch break

 

[Garthanos]

I actually like 4e, but given how encounter powers work

Encounter powers do not create much variation because they generally will always be used - they can be assumed used once each fight.

 

[Garthanos]

Action points are another point of variation the fighter in 5e has an Action surge once a short rest/long rest ... the 4e fighter gets an action point every other fight -- either may or may not choose to use it on a given fight.

Honestly not sure how you can fairly compare the 5e fighter simplistically with earlier editions either.

 

[Garthanos]

Furthermore, because all character progression is based on a chart that spans across all classes.

Not sure what that has to do with his comparison ...