Fighting from the second line.

[Lord Pendragon]

Nope. 3.5 tore the longspear from the grasp of the druid along with the weapon restrictions.[/I]

That's what I was afraid of. Still, we gamed on Thursday, and our druid made good use of Flaming Sphere to do some serious damage from the back row, so she'll probably be all right. She's also taken the Scribe Scroll feat, so if we have some downtime after our current adventure (which took a turn for the worse when our curious halfling rogue touched the pretty statuette,) she should be able to scribe herself a few backup scrolls if the need arises and she's out of second level spell slots.

Either that or Produce Flame. Looking over that spell again, it seems very, very nice. Ranged touch and no range increment. Youch. The only think that makes it questionable at this level is the short duration and low damage. Once the druid gains a few more levels, it'll probably be the go-to ranged attack spell.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

With 7 characters, I would guess you probably want 2 or 3 of them to have ranged or reach weapons as a primary attack option. The usefulness of each will depend on the terrain and range that you are fighting from.

Well, at the moment we have 1 character who's primary attack option is ranged (the ranger, of course,) 2 if you count the wizard and his light crossbow. It's unlikely that I could (or would want to) get any of the others to make a reach weapon their primary attack form. But in a dungeon crawl, having the option would definitely be nice. Just this last Thursday we could have used reach weapons to bring more PCs to bear on a horde of skeletons massed at the end of a 5' corridor.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Also, coordinate your moves. Sure, if one person charges into the room full of monsters, then they can all beat on him. But if you can get your melee characters to charge in at once after everyone delays, then they can't focus all on one guy, you can bring more of your firepower to bear, and you have a better chance of quickly dealing with the shaman.

Thanks for the tip. We had just such a situation arise in our Thursday game, where the paladin and fighter were standing in a 5' corridor, and neither wanted to rush into the room, because there were nine skeletons in there lining the walls and we were sure whoever went in there would be immediately surrounded.

As it turns out, the paladin wound up rushing into the room, and he was immediately surrounded. I'll keep this trick in mind for the next time the situation comes up. It'd have been nice if the paladin and fighter had entered the room together.

 

[babomb]

Thanks for the tip. We had just such a situation arise in our Thursday game, where the paladin and fighter were standing in a 5' corridor, and neither wanted to rush into the room, because there were nine skeletons in there lining the walls and we were sure whoever went in there would be immediately surrounded.

As it turns out, the paladin wound up rushing into the room, and he was immediately surrounded. I'll keep this trick in mind for the next time the situation comes up. It'd have been nice if the paladin and fighter had entered the room together.

And your party's cleric had already expended all of his 3 + CHA mod turning attempts for the day? Let me refresh your memory on how helpful turning would be in this situation, assuming these were normal, 1-HD skeletons:

First, the cleric has to be within 60 feet of the skeletons. That's not hard. Then, a turning check. If the level-3 cleric has a 10 CHA, he only needs a 4 or higher (see table 8-9, p.159). Then, turning damage: 2d6 + level + CHA mod. With a mere 10 CHA, a minimum of 5 HD (and therefore, 5 1-HD skeletons) would be affected up to a maximum of 15. On average, 10 HD would be affected, which means all of the skeletons and then some.

So what happens to the skeletons? Your cleric has 3 HD; the skeletons have 1.

If you have twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any that you would normally turn.

So, on average rolls, all 9 skeletons are destroyed. Miss the turning check? Don't destroy 'em all? Try again!

Even if the skeletons had 2 or 3 HD, chances are some of them would have been affected. They wouldn't have been destroyed, but for 10 rounds (essentially, the entire combat), they would have either run away or cowered, meaning there'd be fewer undead to deal with at a time. Allies can attack the undead without dispelling the turning, and the cleric can use ranged attacks (from at least 10 feet away) without dispelling the turning.

And don't forget, starting at level 4, your paladin can turn undead at his level - 3. And your paladin's high CHA makes him very good at it.

Always, ALWAYS turn undead, epsecially large groups of low-level undead. That'll give your cleric's player something to do.

For more general advice:

Your druid can spontaneously Summon Nature's Ally, and your cleric can prep Summon Monster. You didn't say your rogue/sorceror and wizard were having trouble finding things to do, but they can Summon Monster as well. This is a great option, because the summoned creature can give flanking to your front-line fighters (and, more importantly, the rogue). Plus, your cleric's/druid's can direct this creature's attacks, giving him something to do.

Don't forget the druid's animal companion (or the ranger's at 4th level and higher, or the paladin's mount at 5th and higher). Don't forget the familiars either, especially since they can deliver touch spells. The animals also make great scouts because they look just like normal animals.

Spells. Buff and cure spells are going to be the mainstays of your cleric and druid at low levels. But don't underestimate the power of a well-timed hold person, command, or entangle. Try to cast spells with Will saves on fighter-types. Also, the best buff spells are the ones that affect multiple creatures. Check out the 1st-level bless and bane and the 3rd-level Prayer, for example. Finally, your druid can cast spider climb on himself or the cleric. The target can then run along the wall or ceiling and get behind the enemy or even stay on the wall/ceiling and clear make ranged attacks!

Ranged attacks. Okay, there's a -4 if the enemy is in melee, and another -4 if an ally gives it cover (which is likely, given the size of your group). If the character has nothing else to do, though, you might as well roll it and hope for a 20.

Aid Another. Yeah, it's pretty boring, but if there's absolutely nothing else to do, a +2 to attack or AC can be a big help.

Once you hit 5th level, there should be no problem at all. That's when your cleric and druid get 3rd-level spells. Searing light and call lightning are pretty cool.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Thanks for the feedback, Babomb!

And your party's cleric had already expended all of his 3 + CHA mod turning attempts for the day?

No, he had not. He had figured to turn "if things got difficult" and then forgot about it, I'd guess. He'd have had to enter the room with the nine skeletons to turn them, though, since I believe you need Line of Effect for turning to take effect.

Always, ALWAYS turn undead, epsecially large groups of low-level undead. That'll give your cleric's player something to do.

This is good advice, though it can be hard to tell what undead are are low-level.

Your druid can spontaneously Summon Nature's Ally, and your cleric can prep Summon Monster. You didn't say your rogue/sorceror and wizard were having trouble finding things to do, but they can Summon Monster as well. This is a great option, because the summoned creature can give flanking to your front-line fighters (and, more importantly, the rogue). Plus, your cleric's/druid's can direct this creature's attacks, giving him something to do.

This is exactly what our wizard was doing. In this particular encounter our rogue/sorcerer was missing, having touched a statuette best left alone, and vanished. The druid in this very encounter learned the power of summon spells, as she took an entire room of skeletons (there were two) with just herself, her animal companion, and a summoned wolf and bear.

Don't forget the druid's animal companion (or the ranger's at 4th level and higher, or the paladin's mount at 5th and higher).

Definitely. The druid's companion has been a combat monster, and next level the ranger will get one as well. The paladin is waiting until level 8 for a griffon, though.

Don't forget the familiars either, especially since they can deliver touch spells. The animals also make great scouts because they look just like normal animals.

Our wizard actually doesn't have a familiar. He may figure that it's too fragile, or perhaps he's waiting to take Improved Familiar. Not sure on this one.

Spells. Buff and cure spells are going to be the mainstays of your cleric and druid at low levels. But don't underestimate the power of a well-timed hold person, command, or entangle. Try to cast spells with Will saves on fighter-types. Also, the best buff spells are the ones that affect multiple creatures. Check out the 1st-level bless and bane and the 3rd-level Prayer, for example. Finally, your druid can cast spider climb on himself or the cleric. The target can then run along the wall or ceiling and get behind the enemy or even stay on the wall/ceiling and clear make ranged attacks!

Good advice, I'll pass it along to the druid and cleric.

Once you hit 5th level, there should be no problem at all. That's when your cleric and druid get 3rd-level spells. Searing light and call lightning are pretty cool.

We're definitely looking forward to it. It doesn't hurt that the druid can start wildshaping at that point either.