Wouldn't the aura require line of effect, which would be blocked by being inside the wall?
Fighting Wraiths aka how to annoy your players
- Thread starter the8bitdeity
- Start date
Wouldn't the aura require line of effect, which would be blocked by being inside the wall?
I didn't even think Vulnerability applied to the insubstantial power. I would rule that vulnerability eats through insubstantial.
The fact that the Wraiths weaken is rather brutal. However, wraiths should have fewer HP than a normal 5th level lurker because they are insubstantial.
The real brutal aspect is that the Mad Wraith dazes anyone in its aura, and wraith can use combat advantage to eat their face.
One thing that I find annoying about wraiths, from a DM perspective, is that I can't think of a good way to capitalize on the Phasing power. I want it to be useful for the monster in a fight, but I don't see an affective way to implement it. Partially because monsters can't end their movement in a solid object, so it can't shift in there, so something must be useful.
The fact that the Wraiths weaken is rather brutal. However, wraiths should have fewer HP than a normal 5th level lurker because they are insubstantial.
The real brutal aspect is that the Mad Wraith dazes anyone in its aura, and wraith can use combat advantage to eat their face.
One thing that I find annoying about wraiths, from a DM perspective, is that I can't think of a good way to capitalize on the Phasing power. I want it to be useful for the monster in a fight, but I don't see an affective way to implement it. Partially because monsters can't end their movement in a solid object, so it can't shift in there, so something must be useful.
the8bitdeity
First Post
For the vulnerability / insub question, it's actually been addressed by WotC. Plus I wouldn't want to blanketly state that vulnerability is applied after insubstantial reduction because some monsters only get insub for short durations. It's just apparently Wraiths and Spectres (currently) that have it on all the time. I think in these cases I'll double their vulnerability to Radiant to 10, netting the same result as applying vulnerable after insub reduction.
For phasing, have blocking obstacles the party has to move around, but the wraiths can just go around. For example, in a multi-room encounter, the party may try to use a doorway as a choke point. The wraiths ignore the doorway and phase through the walls.
Starfox
Hero
I'm strongly thinking of a houserule here; insubstantial does not apply to any damage you are vulnerable to. It feels kind of pointless to halve EVERYTHING; why not simply double their hp instead? I did play the untyped clerical spells in 3.5 like this - such as Piercing Light.
But this might make undead combat too swingy; a party with no way to inflict radiant damage might be completely overwhelmed.
Last edited:
BendBars/LiftGates
First Post
Rechan, when it says that phasing creatures can move through objects, walls, and creatures, but must end their move in an unoccupied square, they just mean unoccupied by creatures. They can totally end their move in a wall. Just, presumably, not all of them in the same square of wall. It's like how any creature can move through allied squares, but has to end its move in an empty square.
FireLance
Legend
I interpreted it pretty much the same as Rechan because if I didn't, whenever I run a encounter with wraiths, I would be sorely tempted to make them end their moves in a wall when they are bloodied, and wait until their regeneration healed them to full before sending them after the PCs again. Talk about annoying and grindy!
I might need to read some rules again.
But personally I would never reduce the vulnerability damage on a creature, even if it was insubstancial, if its vulnerable it always takes the damage. This is my interpretation of the spirit of the rules (no wraith puns intended
).
If an insubstancial creature with vulnerability 10 takes 25 damage surely it should be:
25 halved = 12 damage, check to see if it is vulnerable (yes) +10 damage = 22 damage.
This is the way I do it.
But personally I would never reduce the vulnerability damage on a creature, even if it was insubstancial, if its vulnerable it always takes the damage. This is my interpretation of the spirit of the rules (no wraith puns intended
).If an insubstancial creature with vulnerability 10 takes 25 damage surely it should be:
25 halved = 12 damage, check to see if it is vulnerable (yes) +10 damage = 22 damage.
This is the way I do it.
If I was designing an encounter full of insubstantial regenerating weakening monsters, I'd knock off 10-15 hit points (that's essentially 20-60 damage depending on how you look at it) from each of them (or some of them based on their roles).
For insubstantial soldiers, I'm often tempted to knock a point off their defenses too.
But I'd say it's best not to design many such encounters. For encounters against insubstantial creatures I try to work in some hazards and traps into the encounter to increase the difficulty, rather than more monsters. This keeps tensions high enough, but the party can focus their damage on the undead while trying to avoid/disable the other obstacles.
For insubstantial soldiers, I'm often tempted to knock a point off their defenses too.
But I'd say it's best not to design many such encounters. For encounters against insubstantial creatures I try to work in some hazards and traps into the encounter to increase the difficulty, rather than more monsters. This keeps tensions high enough, but the party can focus their damage on the undead while trying to avoid/disable the other obstacles.
