Finally, the Fighter can both Stunt and Hit

[triqui]

Those who want to play extremely simple fighters can just always add their combat superiority dice to damage and ignore the other options.

And this is why this is f****g genius.

 

[Mallus]

I like the direction they're going with this, but I can't shake the feeling Goodman's new Dungeon Crawl Classic RPG does it better, for now.

I'm mildly (and also inexplicably) put off by the way the Expertise Die is sometimes rolled and sometimes just a token you spend to gain an effect.

 

[TwoSix]

I'm mildly (and also inexplicably) put off by the way the Expertise Die is sometimes rolled and sometimes just a token you spend to gain an effect.

Huh. That's actually the aspect that makes it so intriguing to me.

 

[VinylTap]

What would you do otherwise? give him counters he could turn into dice if he wanted more damage? Same thing really... Just less to worry about.

 

[IronWolf]

I like the direction they're going with this, but I can't shake the feeling Goodman's new Dungeon Crawl Classic RPG does it better, for now.

I can't help but make the same comparison. In making that comparison I feel like DCC RPG is doing it more elegantly with much less overhead.

 

[DogBackward]

I like the fighter setup, I just wish they would have had expertise dice refresh at the end of your turn instead of at the beginning.

At the beginning, means you have to decide whether to save dice (that you might not even use) for off turn reactions. If they did it at the end of the turn, you could use them for reactions if the opportunity presented itself, and burn whatever was left during your turn.

I think this is the way it's supposed to be, though. If you want to play a defensive, reactive Fighter, then you have to deal with the fact that you may be wasting opportunity; that's how it works in a real fight. And if you want to play the aggressive, all-out Fighter, you have to deal with the fact that you might miss having those points when you get hit. Switching when they refresh completely negates this very important choice, and removes that tension.

"Do I go all out and hope I don't need defense, or do I go on the defensive and hope someone falls into my trap?"

 

[TerraDave]

Back to the thread title, the fact that it is not a called shot mechanic (ie -4 to hit) is key.

It does make me wonder how manuevers will work for others, if at all.

 

[nightwalker450]

I think this is the way it's supposed to be, though. If you want to play a defensive, reactive Fighter, then you have to deal with the fact that you may be wasting opportunity; that's how it works in a real fight. And if you want to play the aggressive, all-out Fighter, you have to deal with the fact that you might miss having those points when you get hit. Switching when they refresh completely negates this very important choice, and removes that tension.

"Do I go all out and hope I don't need defense, or do I go on the defensive and hope someone falls into my trap?"

That option assumes that your opponent is more skilled than you. You have to decide to risk going after him full on, or play defensive. Then your opponent is able to read your moves, and can see if you are ready to defend and can choose to ignore (negating your dice), or go elsewhere.

The other side assumes you are as skilled as your opponent, and thereby able to react to his actions. He's not hitting to accurately or too hard, so I'm not working as hard at defense, so I have a better offense. If you get swarmed, you could use up all your dice on defense then not have any left for offense, or choose to soldier through it and then be able to land a powerful swing.

 

[KidSnide]

I think this is the way it's supposed to be, though. If you want to play a defensive, reactive Fighter, then you have to deal with the fact that you may be wasting opportunity; that's how it works in a real fight. And if you want to play the aggressive, all-out Fighter, you have to deal with the fact that you might miss having those points when you get hit. Switching when they refresh completely negates this very important choice, and removes that tension.

"Do I go all out and hope I don't need defense, or do I go on the defensive and hope someone falls into my trap?"

But that's not really how it works.

If you're a defensively oriented fighter, then you never get to use those dice on offense because you're saving them to parry. Sometimes you are missed or not attacked and the dice are wasted. If you're an offensively oriented fighter, then you use the dice if you hit. If the offensive fighter misses, then the fighter gets a second opportunity to use dice for parrying or defense. As the system is set up right now, it favors an offensive use of the dice.

Of course, if CS dice refreshed at the end of your turn, then the system would favor a defensive use of the dice. A defensive fighter would have the dice available if it. If the dice aren't used on a hit, the defensive fighter would be able to pump those dice into an attack. However, an offensive fighter would have to forgo the chance to parry in order to save the dice for use when-and-if the fighter hits.

Either way, one use of the dice is favored because it comes up first. Unless fighters are given the choice of refresh at the beginning or end of their turn (which seems complicated), combat superiority will favor one of offense or defense.

-KS

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

That option assumes that your opponent is more skilled than you. You have to decide to risk going after him full on, or play defensive. Then your opponent is able to read your moves, and can see if you are ready to defend and can choose to ignore (negating your dice), or go elsewhere.

The other side assumes you are as skilled as your opponent, and thereby able to react to his actions. He's not hitting to accurately or too hard, so I'm not working as hard at defense, so I have a better offense. If you get swarmed, you could use up all your dice on defense then not have any left for offense, or choose to soldier through it and then be able to land a powerful swing.

I can see both arguments, but I think it comes down to the fact that the current system is more tactically interesting. It forces the fighter's player to judge in advance whether or not to fight defensively, rather than just dumping whatever they didn't need that turn for defense into extra damage.

It also allows more tactical depth for the enemy: rather than just slogging through a level 5 fighter's 2d8 DR every round (or else facing the wrath of his extra damage), an enemy could hold back to inspire false confidence, and then hit hard after the fighter has already dedicated his dice to a powerful attack.

Overall, I'm really interested in how powerful the martial characters are this time around. A rogue's Sneak Attack is the most damaging attack (of its level) in the playtest, and a fifth-level fighter can reduce a Cure Light Wounds worth of damage every round. If they switched this particular mechanic around, the fighter would almost never take damage in combat!