Finally, the Fighter can both Stunt and Hit

kerleth

Explorer
Close, but not quite

I really like the fighter in general, but I do have a couple of gripes about the specifics.

1) The "power levels and dead levels" syndrome that I hated in third edition. Hitting 2nd level as a fighter is boring. Since this is your first "level up" since making your character, it is the worst place to have a boring level. I think they should make the combat superiority dice increase at even levels and new maneuvers get learned at odd levels, that way there is always something to look forward to at your next level up.

2) The slayer fighting style's glancing blow is dissapointing at first glance (pun intended). I loved the reaper ability of the slayer theme in the first playtest. If my character's thing is he hits stuff, then By George he hits stuff! It gave me the same feel as the rogue's skill mastery--"My character is so skilled that he can compensate for the bad luck and circumstances that lesser warriors/skillmasters fall prey to." This version only works if you roll a 10 or better and still miss. On the character likely to have the best attack bonus and thus LEAST likely to miss on a decent roll. A stated intent for this edition was to not make players keep track of little fiddly abilities with little payoff. That's why the dwarf got straight poison immunity instead of a small bonus to keep track of. This version is too fiddly. I have to keep in mind the little rule of whether I rolled a 10 or higher and still managed to miss. This benefits most against enemies with insane AC or fighters with poor combat stats, which are atypical situations for the straightforward, simple, I thwack stuff character. It also seems underwhelming compared to some of the other tactical options. Just let me deal my dice on a miss and be done with it. Simple, effective, and those who don't like it, don't use it.
 

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nightwalker450

First Post
But that's not really how it works.

If you're a defensively oriented fighter, then you never get to use those dice on offense because you're saving them to parry. Sometimes you are missed or not attacked and the dice are wasted. If you're an offensively oriented fighter, then you use the dice if you hit. If the offensive fighter misses, then the fighter gets a second opportunity to use dice for parrying or defense. As the system is set up right now, it favors an offensive use of the dice.

Of course, if CS dice refreshed at the end of your turn, then the system would favor a defensive use of the dice. A defensive fighter would have the dice available if it. If the dice aren't used on a hit, the defensive fighter would be able to pump those dice into an attack. However, an offensive fighter would have to forgo the chance to parry in order to save the dice for use when-and-if the fighter hits.

Either way, one use of the dice is favored because it comes up first. Unless fighters are given the choice of refresh at the beginning or end of their turn (which seems complicated), combat superiority will favor one of offense or defense.

-KS

Good point, but the offensive fighter is almost fixed with glancing blow. Almost because it doesn't quite work as well as it should. Spend it for damage on a miss, spend it for more damage on a hit.

To fix this for defensive it would require them to allow you spend it to heal if you didn't have to defend. Or they could change it to allow you give yourself temporary hit points (if they want to introduce those) instead of having to use a reaction to reduce, thus allowing Guardian and Parry. Ok, I'd settle for this with recharge at the beginning. :D
 

nightwalker450

First Post
As you get multiple dice, it would be great if using these to parry/protect wasn't a reaction. I'd think you should be able to spend them as long as you have dice (after all that's why you saved them).
 

Jack99

Adventurer
I love that the fighter will be a killing machine with virtually any weapon in hand. I mean, at 10th level, CE dice are 4d12, so while whether he uses a greatword or a shortsword, will matter flavor-wise, it will have relatively little influence on his damage output.

4d12.. just brutal. I like it.
 

Jack99

Adventurer
As you get multiple dice, it would be great if using these to parry/protect wasn't a reaction. I'd think you should be able to spend them as long as you have dice (after all that's why you saved them).

Seems you can. Mearls gave an example. If you have 3 CE dice, you could use them to defend 3 different allies from the attacks of up to 3 orcs.
 

functionciccio

First Post
I like the new fighter.
I think they're almost there.

The CE mechanic is nice, but I hope that more Maneuvers will be introduced, otherwise it will be Deadly Strike, like, forever.

They should bring a bit of 4E tech into the class and we're done (imho obviously).
 

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