D&D 5E find steed: giant bat?

[evilbob]

So, completely ignoring the whole "range (self)" question that is really just a sideshow in my opinion, this spell really doesn't seem to have any kind of specific limit or even much of an implied one on what can be used as a steed, other than pure "DM fiat." It gives a few examples and uses the word "animal" to say the DM may allow other animals, but that's not a keyword (like beast) and it's ambiguous as to whether that's restrictive or just inclusive.

All that to say: is there any reasonable excuse not to get a giant bat with this spell? They're only CR 1/4, so it's not like it's out of line with the warhorse example. It's a "beast" (similar to animal) and it's not particularly strong in combat; it's a large creature that has been used as a mount in other fantasy lore. But the one game-breaker is that it can fly.

Now, paladins don't get this spell until level 5 at the earliest, and wizards can already learn "fly" by then, so it seems sort of balanced. Until you realize that wizards can only fly for 10 minutes while using concentration, and a giant bat can fly for... well long enough that it doesn't matter, there's no contest. Plus, in 5.0, things like unlimited flying are actually really hard to come by. Spells just don't break the game anymore (a good thing). This spell just seems a bit too broad for what you could potentially do with it.

And I'm not even getting into whether or not you could summon something much more interesting, like a pegasus. Or a unicorn. Or a t-rex. I mean: it's hard to say why you wouldn't, other than just "the DM is required to make a judgement call on what is a suitable steed and what is not." Even just something like a dire wolf doesn't seem too big of a deal until you realize that while you ride it, it will get advantage on every attack - and honestly blows the warhorse away in every other way as well. Is that a fair steed to call for the spell? (Or seriously: why not a pegasus?)

I mean, I get that DM's have to make calls, not everything is spelled out in 5.0, and that making a 2nd level (5th character level) spell call a CR 8 t-rex as a mount is clearly just silly. But it still feels like the spell is just too ambiguous.

So would you allow a giant bat?

 

[evilbob]

Sorry, one additional side question: when I read the description I assumed you could cast this spell for yourself or anyone else. It has a range of 30 feet (not self) and it never specifically says you can't cast it for other people, although all the language talks about "you" and "your" exclusively. It wasn't until I started looking at other posts online that I saw that people thought it should be exclusively for yourself - i.e. you couldn't use this for the whole party. Is that how others interpret it? (I guess it would work the same as find familiar in that way?)

 

[epithet]

I've been thinking about it in terms of the druid's wild shape ability. I haven't really nailed it down yet, but I think that the base druid guidelines (not the Circle of the Moon) might serve as a standard for found steeds.

 

[Azurewraith]

I would allow it as the bats stats are pretty poor and it lacks fly-by so unless you have some weird ass ranged paladin(is that a thing?) that bat is going to eat OAs like no tomorrow. The mounted combat feat(not sure if your allowing feats) could cause minor issues with the paladins high AC (im assuming a min of 18) but that can be overcome by just throwing a few spell casters into the mix or a horde breaker ranger npc.

Also it will only work in well wide open spaces good look getting that bat to anywhere in a dungeon,forest,ravine,town etc.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Ranged paladins are indeed a thing once multiclassing comes into the picture. A warlock 2/(Oathbreaker?) paladin X mounted on a giant bat would be hilarious. I may have to steal that for a villain in today's session.

How would Horde Breaker counter Mounted Combatant?

 

[Azurewraith]

They can hit a 2nd target within 5ft of the first so its like constant advantage against the mounted char if they use mounted combat if they don't bam you just nailed that 14ac 20hp bat

 

[evilbob]

As I said, a giant bat is really not a good combat creature. In fact it's kind of a liability, given that you'd likely be more than zero feet off the ground when riding it and it can be killed pretty easily. But that's not the point. Constant, available-anytime flying is huge. It fundamentally changes how your party interacts with the world. And it's not really something you can get outside of a few very rare magic items and high level spells - or I guess an 8th level druid more or less effectively can (they could fly 8 hours and then rest an hour to do it again).

I'm thinking given that fly is available at the same time and druids can do this 3 levels later, it's not quite that bad - even if this is better in many ways.

No one has a thought about whether or not the spell can be cast for others?

 

[Hand of Evil]

I would allow it as a DM, it would have to be a dusk/night only riding mount and would have to see its carrying ability but don't see any reason not to but it is your DM that has to decide if they are in the area.

 

[evilbob]

I would allow it as a DM, it would have to be a dusk/night only riding mount and would have to see its carrying ability but don't see any reason not to but it is your DM that has to decide if they are in the area.

There is no carrying ability; not sure what you mean by that.

You call them instantly to your side; it's not like awaken - it's just there. Nothing has to be in the area.

Traveling only at night would be reasonable, I agree.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

One of the example 1st-5th level characters that WotC gave us character sheets for has a half-orc barbarian who used find steed to get a brown bear mount.

The sad part is that there isn't any sort of "improved warhorse" to maintain the theme of the knight in shining armor without falling behind in usefulness.