D&D 5E Finding 5th edition too "safe".

[Sacrosanct]

That's a little disingenuous since ToH was made specifically to be deadly. ToH was a reaction to notable players saying they could beat any challenge and, which...hey, is just like this thread, only Gygax responded with more demi-liches and less gum flapping then we are here.

Well, that line was a bit tongue in cheek, but it doesn't change the fact that in AD&D, a house cat can kill a level 1 PC, and a 1 HD poisonous snake has a 50% chance of killing a 9th level PC in one hit. And that's not even getting into things like level drain or spells like disintegrate.

 

[Oofta]

This is what happened in my game, two players ended up dying.

One had previously stabilised but then got struck by the enemy bad guy which started the death saves again and ended up killing him. The other player first rolled a 1 on the death save which counted for two failures, and failed another roll. I think he succeeded on a single death save, was not enough.

Our DM set up a scenario for the next game which let them get ressed although we were in debt for the cost of the spells and now owe the local priesthood a huge favour.

People also forget that hitting someone who is unconscious is automatically a crit, and crits count as 2 failed death saves.

 

[MoonSong]

Why give up all the other improvements that have been added to the game since 2nd Ed, when you can just easily adjust the game to make it more lethal?

What improvements? The magic everywhere? Alignment not mattering? Hardcodded flavor? Poor playing agency? Escalating complexity? The only innovation I can't live with is the sorcerer, and the 5e version is nothing to write home about.

In most editions of D&D it's crazy-easy to jack up the lethality with a minimum of work.

If you want 5e to run more like 2e, I would suggest the following houserules:
1) Remove HDs completely.
2) Change overnight healing to only 1 HP per long rest regardless of character level.
3) Remove death saves: characters automatically die when they reach zero HPs.
4) Being raised from the dead causes your Con score to drop by 1 each time it happens.
5) Remove Ability Score increases from all the classes.
6) Change the MM's life drain ability from reducing max HPs on a hit to requiring a save to avoid losing a level.

But ASIs are an element of balance. What do you give to the poor fighter?

 

[Guest 6801328]

Larger encounters?

Smarter monsters?

Monsters tailored for party's weaknesses?

More wandering monsters during attempted rests?

More traps to whittle away at their resources?

Or, yeah, different game if you really dislike 5e as much as it seems.

 

[JeffB]

This is what happened in my game, two players ended up dying.
.

Jeebus. Someone remind me to never answer cbwjm's "player wanted" ads

 

[MechaPilot]

But ASIs are an element of balance. What do you give to the poor fighter?

Nothing. The list was suggestions to make 5e run more like 2e. Fighters fall behind as the campaign goes on. That's how 2e works. 2e has its own version of balance by making some classes better at early levels and some classes better at higher levels. It's not what I prefer, but if one is looking to make 5e run more like 2e, that's part of it.

 

[JeffB]

On a serious note. Yeah, 5th starts out rough, but then gets pretty "safe". One of the things I really liked about 4th was hitting character with loss of Healing Surges, either through physicallly demanding skill challenges, or special circumstances/traps/events. This was way more scary than hit point damage for the players, IME.

Reducing 5e Hitdice in a similar manner should put a little fear in their hearts.

 

[LapBandit]

If your campaign is safe, you aren't challenging your players.

 

[LapBandit]

If your campaign is safe, you aren't challenging your players.

 

[Oofta]

If your campaign is safe, you aren't challenging your players.

I agree 100%. I put my players in mortal danger on a regular basis and it's not unusual for there to be one or more unconscious characters during a battle some time during the game session.

I don't personally think you need to kill PCs to make it a challenge, but if that's what your players want it's easy to accomplish. Double the monster damage if you need to or simply be a mean and evil DM by having multiple waves of enemies show up and hitting people when they're down. Focus fire and go after the squishy wizard first. Have an evil cleric banish the party's cleric, or encase him in a wall of force. Give the bad guys the home field advantage. Give the monsters a particular hatred of the PCs so that they have advantage on their attacks and do extra damage on crits. Don't let them rest, do 6-8 encounters without a long rest. Etc.

Also remember that the encounter guidelines in the DMG are just that. Guidelines. So throw the rules out and throw the kitchen sink at the players.

I do try to switch things up now and then as well by having some easy encounters and some hard ones. It's ok to let the PCs feel like heroes, but if they aren't challenged I don't think switching editions is the answer.