Fire Elemental question

[Scion]

There's certainly evidence that Fire and Water are opposed elements, per the RAW. Witness the Fire and Water domains, each of which allows a cleric to rebuke/command creatures of the matching subtype and turn/destroy creatures of the opposing subtype.

Likely this is the closest one will come in the core to seeing the 'opposed' arguement really. But to me that seems more like a limitation on choices rather than actual rules.

It'd be even more interesting if there was a trinity like effect between plants, animals and insect domains

I'm probably not alone in thinking that either outcome would be absurd.

Of course it does say that they simply cannot enter water.. so perhaps that bit of text will override anything else. You cannot push them under water because that would be entering it, you cannot teleport them into it likewise.. Sortof how an air elemental would have a hard time moving through solid stone, or really any creature, they cannot be 'pushed' into it and if teleported into it they are shunted to the nearest open space.

Perhaps by the game rules water is as solid as stone is to the rest of us and should follow similar rulings.

That certainly makes more sense than some of the other options out there

 

[Prince Sharam]

BUT, until that's stated, i find it hard to believe.

 

[Nim]

Of course it does say that they simply cannot enter water.. so perhaps that bit of text will override anything else. You cannot push them under water because that would be entering it, you cannot teleport them into it likewise.. Sortof how an air elemental would have a hard time moving through solid stone, or really any creature, they cannot be 'pushed' into it and if teleported into it they are shunted to the nearest open space.

Perhaps by the game rules water is as solid as stone is to the rest of us and should follow similar rulings.

No, that won't quite do it. Not only can they 'not enter' water, but a body of water is also an 'impassible barrier'. They cannot move across the top of it (as if it were solid). In fact, they cannot move over it in any way unless they can 'step or jump' over it.

Going strictly by the RAW, that would appear to mean that if you cast Fly on a fire elemental, it couldn't fly over a river.

All in all, I think they need to reword those two sentences

 

[Scion]

Since the elemental could 'jump' over the water I dont see how being able to fly would be prohibited.. just call it a very long, very controlled jump

 

[frankthedm]

You could try using the damage rules for normal creatures taking a dip in magma.

I like that idea too.

 

[William_2]

No, that won't quite do it. Not only can they 'not enter' water, but a body of water is also an 'impassible barrier'. They cannot move across the top of it (as if it were solid). In fact, they cannot move over it in any way unless they can 'step or jump' over it.

Going strictly by the RAW, that would appear to mean that if you cast Fly on a fire elemental, it couldn't fly over a river.

All in all, I think they need to reword those two sentences

I'm with that - reword, or remove, or provide some clue what they were intended to mean…

 

[Nim]

Since the elemental could 'jump' over the water I dont see how being able to fly would be prohibited.. just call it a very long, very controlled jump

But, that'd be interpretation! Mostly, I was just trying to give a silly example of what happens when you try to stick to JUST the rules as written in a situation they didn't anticipate.

Logically, I agree that anything you can jump, you should be able to fly over!

 

[Scion]

For those that are for the 'massive damage from being in water' what sort of damage would it be? is it subject to DR? Can it be rested in some way? What sort of spells would allow for no damage to be taken? What about partial exposure instead of complete submersion?

There are a lot of unanswered questions there


Also, for nim, I think that reading the 'cannot enter' as a hard and fast rule as much as a human cannot normally enter solid stone makes more sense than the other interpretations. That is what I was driving at before I have no problem thinking of water as being as solid to a fire elemental as ground is to an air elemental.

 

[Murrdox]

By the rules, water simply does not damage a Fire Elemental.

"Water" generally speaking - does not do damage in the D&D world. That's why there are no "Watery" magical properties you can place on weapons which do an extra 1d6 "Water" damage. Water is simply not a harmful element, just like Air or Earth is not. Nothing in the game does "Earth" damage to anything else.

Since Water is not a damaging property, it doesn't damage a Fire Elemental, nor anything else.

However, damage properties aside...

Water certainly has the property of "Extinguishing Fire", but "Fire" in the conventional sense of the word is not the same as "Fire Elemental". If an Elemental does not consume fuel or breathe, then in the conventional sense of the word, an Elemental is not composed of what we would consider to be mundane "Fire". Thus there is nothing that says that water would do anything to extinguish it.

If you want to house-rule it to be cool, then by all means.

As a DM, I'd rule that a Fire Elemental who is dragged or summoned or pushed into water basically becomes helpless, and cannot move. I suppose he would float, or sink depending on how you view Fire Elementals, and he'd probably boil the water around him and thrash about a bit like a drowning victim.

 

[isoChron]

Water Ball
Like Fire Ball but nonlethal damage