D&D 5E (2024) Fireball Vs Chromatic Orb Late Tier 2 Thoughts.

[Zardnaar]

Chance of 2d8 matching = 12.5%
Chance of 2d8 treat 1 as 2 matching = 15.63%

Not that you roll 2d8, but that's all the math I want to do at the moment.

Well, 8d8 with Elemental Adept is 100% chance to bounce (assuming you hit).

From memory 6d8 is 92%, 7d8 97% and 8d8 is 99%. Without the feat.

 

[Quartz]

You guys are being insufficiently sneaky with Fireball, especially on the DM side. Consider the healing effect on an Iron Golem. Consider the BBEG using a fireball in a room to burn carpets and wall fabrics to uncover Glyphs of Warding or Symbols or both.

 

[Kinematics]

@mellored

Here's your bounce chances before and after taking Elemental Adept:

Level Cast	Dice	Max Bounce	Bounce Chance	Adept Bounce Chance	Increase %
0	2	0	12.50%	15.63%	125.00%
1	3	1	34.38%	41.41%	120.45%
2	4	2	58.98%	67.77%	114.90%
3	5	3	79.49%	86.82%	109.21%
4	6	4	92.31%	96.43%	104.46%
5	7	5	98.08%	99.52%	101.47%
6	8	6	99.76%	100.00%	100.24%

Level 0 is for spreadsheet nicety.

 

[mellored]

@mellored

Here's your bounce chances before and after taking Elemental Adept:

Level Cast	Dice	Max Bounce	Bounce Chance	Adept Bounce Chance	Increase %
0	2	0	12.50%	15.63%	125.00%
1	3	1	34.38%	41.41%	120.45%
2	4	2	58.98%	67.77%	114.90%
3	5	3	79.49%	86.82%	109.21%
4	6	4	92.31%	96.43%	104.46%
5	7	5	98.08%	99.52%	101.47%
6	8	6	99.76%	100.00%	100.24%

Level 0 is for spreadsheet nicety.

Worth noting that last column is only for a second target.

Here's the chance for max bounces (based off your numbers).

base, with Adept, increase
1: 34.38%, 41.41%, 120%
2: 34.78%, 45.93%, 132%
3: 50.23%, 65.44%, 130%
4: 72.61%, 86.47%, 119%
5: 90.76%, 97.62%, 107%
6: 98.57%, 100%, 101%

Also multiplied by a small 103% increase for the basic Adept die increase.

 

[Zardnaar]

@mellored

Here's your bounce chances before and after taking Elemental Adept:

Level Cast	Dice	Max Bounce	Bounce Chance	Adept Bounce Chance	Increase %
0	2	0	12.50%	15.63%	125.00%
1	3	1	34.38%	41.41%	120.45%
2	4	2	58.98%	67.77%	114.90%
3	5	3	79.49%	86.82%	109.21%
4	6	4	92.31%	96.43%	104.46%
5	7	5	98.08%	99.52%	101.47%
6	8	6	99.76%	100.00%	100.24%

Level 0 is for spreadsheet nicety.

o7 bad@maff

 

[Horwath]

@mellored

Here's your bounce chances before and after taking Elemental Adept:

Level Cast	Dice	Max Bounce	Bounce Chance	Adept Bounce Chance	Increase %
0	2	0	12.50%	15.63%	125.00%
1	3	1	34.38%	41.41%	120.45%
2	4	2	58.98%	67.77%	114.90%
3	5	3	79.49%	86.82%	109.21%
4	6	4	92.31%	96.43%	104.46%
5	7	5	98.08%	99.52%	101.47%
6	8	6	99.76%	100.00%	100.24%

Level 0 is for spreadsheet nicety.

damage is still on the low end, might be better if 3rd, 6th and 9th level got an extra die of damage as they represent new tier of play(spells)

1st level: 3d8
2nd level: 4d8
3rd level: 6d8(comparable to fireballs 8d6)
4th level: 7d8
5th level: 8d8
6th level: 10d8
7th level: 11d8
8th level: 12d8
9th level: 14d8

 

[Zardnaar]

damage is still on the low end, might be better if 3rd, 6th and 9th level got an extra die of damage as they represent new tier of play(spells)

1st level: 3d8
2nd level: 4d8
3rd level: 6d8(comparable to fireballs 8d6)
4th level: 7d8
5th level: 8d8
6th level: 10d8
7th level: 11d8
8th level: 12d8
9th level: 14d8

Its easier to buff your attackrolls and rerolls with CO.

Functionally its no save. It scales better.

Im probably taking both tbh with say a Sorcerer.

Overall i think its better for Sorcerer. I haven't seen it used enough by a non Sorcerer to make that call.

 

[mellored]

damage is still on the low end, might be better if 3rd, 6th and 9th level got an extra die of damage as they represent new tier of play(spells)

1st level: 3d8
2nd level: 4d8
3rd level: 6d8(comparable to fireballs 8d6)
4th level: 7d8
5th level: 8d8
6th level: 10d8
7th level: 11d8
8th level: 12d8
9th level: 14d8

Upcasting a level 1 spell should be worse than a level 3 spell.

The fact that CO is competitive at all is what makes it a standout.

 

[Horwath]

Upcasting a level 1 spell should be worse than a level 3 spell.

The fact that CO is competitive at all is what makes it a standout.

for "special" effects I agree 100%
for basic damage and healing amount, 3rd level slot should give you 3rd level effect.

fireball, delayed blast fireball and meteor swarm all cast at 9th level could all deal 40d6 damage and it would not break anything.
Delayed blast fireball would still have its special effect and meteor swarm would still have its special effect.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well they hit level 12.

Going threw a portal after a long rest huge caveen. I spread everything out theyre familiar with PC tactics. A synaptic static managed to get 5.

8 CR 2 green dragon spawn archers, 4 half dragons (green) and a green dragons pawn gods layer (adapted from 3.5).

1st fight of the day Sorcerer decides to drop a level 6 1. All those months ago it was compared to chain lightning.

Elemental Adept feat it cant not bounce. Bounce chance is 100%.
Not even an elf but seeking spell advantage to hit +2 item used.

Lost track of damage around 240+. 7 targets from 30+ to 47 damage.

Best fireball we saw got 12 upcast to 5th level. That one broke 400 damage.

Level 6 functionally chain lightning no save with Seeking spell and rerolls. He took the Elemental Adept feat to ignore lightning resistance. However its main use has been to bounce CO.

Half dragons all used breath weapons. 32d6 poison damage. With heroes feast, evasion, upcast aid+ heroes feast and temporary hit points no one went down.