Fireballs, Force Orbs, and Ranged Attacks

[DreamChaser]

A pseudo-AoE.
Say you have creatures arranged like this
XXX
X_X
XXX

X= creature
_=empty space

with force orb as written, you can't get all of them- 3 can't be hit
With the way you're abusing it, you can.
Makes a distinct difference in the power of the 'target: creature or object' spells with secondary targets. Suddenly it *is* acting largely like a burst, when it was written as not-a-burst.

And no, resilent sphere was not a perfect example. But with less than 10 4e spells to draw from, I was trying to illustrate an example of the can of worms this opens.

But there is another factor to this. Let's say I used my minor action mage hand to move a rock to float into said empty space...there would be the exact same breakdown of creatures and, likely, simply one more rock. Add in the fact that in 3e as mentioned above we have rules for targeting a square, it becomes a non issue.

Honestly, as I said initially, I can accept "fuzziness" to the idea of targeting a square as an object but since any unattended item, no matter how small provided it is visible, is a valid "object" target, it is ridiculous to try to rule that any but the cleanest of squares is so emply that no "object" target exists within it.

If they truly did not intend for your example to be possible, they would have made the target 1 creature instead of 1 creature or object.

DC

 

[catsclaw227]

Anyone who'd tell their players that they can't target the ground or use otluk's to block a passage or a lightning bolt to power a gnomish time travelling DeLorean has no place being a GM.

Your job is not to tell the players what they can't do, it's to decide how the results will entertain them.

So.... help me understand. Are you suggesting that DMs at RPGA events have no place being DMs because they are responsible for keeping with the RAW regarding how spells are used?

If I explain to a player that a spell can't be used a certain way then I have no place being a DM?

Hmmmm....

 

[I'm A Banana]

with force orb as written, you can't get all of them- 3 can't be hit
With the way you're abusing it, you can.

It's not really an abuse. Enter "bag of rats," or, since it can be an object, a dropped stick or a pebble.

Toss that into the center, and suddenly you've got everyone.

If you can't target that space of floor, clever players are just going to find weirder ways around it.

 

[Li Shenron]

Anyone who'd tell their players that they can't target the ground or use otluk's to block a passage or a lightning bolt to power a gnomish time travelling DeLorean has no place being a GM.

Your job is not to tell the players what they can't do, it's to decide how the results will entertain them.

DMing is not a job.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In any case, the reason you can only target one square should be obvious. I'm assuming (and this may be a farfetched assumption, but I'm again assuming 4e's designers are not monkeys until I'm absolutely proven wrong) that if you target a colossal dragon, Force Orb's blast does not suddenly become 6 by 6 and capable of hitting 20 goblins packed around the dragon when it is capable of hitting only 9 goblins if aimed at a tightly packed formation of goblins.

I'd gathered the impression that, for example, a Close Burst 1 radiates 1 square from the caster's space... so if it's cast by a Medium creature, it takes up an area three-squares-on-a-side, but if it's cast by a Large creature, it takes up an area four-squares-on-a-side.

As written in the DDXP sheets, Force Orb's secondary attack affects any creature adjacent to the primary target. So if the primary target is Large, the secondary attack will affect any creature in any of the twelve squares adjacent to that primary target.

Or if there are a few dozen minions seated at a 40-foot long table, you should be able to zap the table as your primary target, and get the secondary attack on any minion adjacent to the table.

-Hyp.

 

[DreamChaser]

I'd gathered the impression that, for example, a Close Burst 1 radiates 1 square from the caster's space... so if it's cast by a Medium creature, it takes up an area three-squares-on-a-side, but if it's cast by a Large creature, it takes up an area four-squares-on-a-side.

As written in the DDXP sheets, Force Orb's secondary attack affects any creature adjacent to the primary target. So if the primary target is Large, the secondary attack will affect any creature in any of the twelve squares adjacent to that primary target.

Or if there are a few dozen minions seated at a 40-foot long table, you should be able to zap the table as your primary target, and get the secondary attack on any minion adjacent to the table.

-Hyp.

Exactly...and possibly destroying the table in the process...

DC

 

[Leatherhead]

If you can't attack the ground/floor/ceiling/wall with powers that target objects in 4th, then there is a serious flaw in the rules.

In fact, I will be severely disappointed if fireballs can no longer cause collateral damage and burn buildings down.

 

[Andur]

So targetting the floor should secondary everything adjacent to the floor, including the caster and and his allies, can't have it both ways.

 

[Li Shenron]

So targetting the floor should secondary everything adjacent to the floor, including the caster and and his allies, can't have it both ways.

Cast fireball at the planet, the ultimate wizard's tactic

[Ultimate in the sense that she'll then have the whole world population wanting to kick her back-orb]

 

[Kraydak]

So targetting the floor should secondary everything adjacent to the floor, including the caster and and his allies, can't have it both ways.

Force Orb (at least) has IFF built in, so no worries there