Firing into Melee; Cover and -4

[Dax Doomslayer]

Hi Folks,
I have hopefully an easy question. Is the -4 penalty for firing into melee cumulative with the "cover" penalty (for medium sized it would be a cumulative -8 penalty)? I believe it is by the diagram text found on p. 123 of the PHB (bottom of page, text in top right about Lidda suffering a -4 penalty . . .). However, the areas of "cover" and "shooting into melee" are split up and don't "cross reference" one another. The reason I ask is a player has asked why would there be a -4 penalty taken to be "cautious" and "careful" not to hit their ally when the cover ruling indicates that this is in fact a possibility. I was wondering what other's takes on this rule is. Thanks!

 

[twjensen]

Firing into melee

Yes, firing into melee penalties stack with cover penalties. But multiple cover penalties (ie, cover from intervening person + cover from shield spell or tower shield) do not stack, only the most severe penalty applies.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Although it amounts to the same spread of 8 points, remember that by the rules you dont subtract 8 from the archer's attack roll. He gets the normal -4 for firing into melee. In the event that the ally gives cover to the target, the target's AC improves.

Regarding the possibility of hitting your ally even if you are careful, that is just the risk of combat. No matter how careful you are (-4 to hit), you still may hit your ally if he is providing cover for your target, and your target is still harder to hit than normal.

 

[Legildur]

twjensen: Yes, firing into melee penalties stack with cover penalties. But multiple cover penalties (ie, cover from intervening person + cover from shield spell or tower shield) do not stack, only the most severe penalty applies.

Is that so? I haven't seen anything along those lines, but I'd be happy to be shown the light.

In our game we play that each additional figure (say all medium size) increases the cover by one category. eg from half to 3 quarters etc. That is, we treat it as though the cover stacks (but not the actual penalties from each piece of cover - if that makes sense).

If different sized combatants are involved eg human firing through a halfling's square at an Orc, then we adjust the cover accordingly (in this case, one quarter cover).

We also adjust the cover if the fire is coming in from an oblique angle. eg not from directly behind an ally.

Don't forget, that firing through an ally's square may have a chance to hit them, but if their Dex bonus is sufficient, it may in fact miss them and still hit the intended target. ie they dodged your shot.

 

[Zhure]

Page 124
"Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a
ranged weapon at a target that is engaged in melee with an ally, you suffer a –4 penalty on your attack roll because you have to aim carefully to avoid hitting your ally...."

This is what Precise Shot is attempting to overcome, and it's not specifically a cover related penalty.

Greg

 

[Zhure]

Page 133
"This cover bonus overlaps (does not stack) with certain other
bonuses. For example, kneeling gives you a +2 bonus to your AC
against ranged weapons. Kneeling behind a low wall could change your cover from one-quarter (+2) to three-quarters (+7). You would not get the +2 kneeling bonus on top of the cover bonus."

Greg