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First Impressions?

Estlor

Explorer
In regards to the comment about the Lurker feat being redundant: It's not.

In this particular case, the rogue can still attack with advantage even if he/she has to move and is no longer hidden as a result.

So, basically, instead of having to STAY hidden to attack with advantage, they get advantage on the first attack no matter what.
 

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Vikingkingq

Adventurer
So they have hard data showing the 4E Fighter is the most popular class in the game, after signs pointed in every previous edition it was spellcasters, and they take basically everything that made the Fighter "good" away and turn them in to a wizard caddy by level 3 and think it's a smart idea?

I'm not seeing that, necessarily, although I will admit that the pregen fighter isn't as obviously interesting as some of the others. The downside is that I think they did too good a job on the melee cleric in comparison to the fighter, where the Defender feat and Hold the Line allow for some strategic tanking, but I'm guessing the fighter is more of an offensive whirlwind-style build.

The fighter has Reaper, and will get Fighter's Surge, and Cleave, which I see as a sign that the fighter's combat is distinct from that of the melee cleric or the rogue. We haven't seen maneuvers yet, but I imagine complexity comes back in there.
 

Estlor

Explorer
Just had a chance to digest the character sheets and noticed something I really liked.

The flavor of Vancian Spellcasting used by the wizard and cleric is actually the spellcasting system of Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved. You cast X/level spells, but you decide at the time of casting which prepared spells they are.
 

awesomeocalypse

First Post
The pregen fighter is awful. I understand a more complex/manuever-based version is coming soon, but even for a "simple" version that is just a really uninteresting excuse for a "class". I feel like this system has so much freedom for the designers to really just sit down and think about what are cool things, both in and out of combat, that veteran warriors have going for them and to play off that without being bound to some rigid skill or power system, and right now they aren't taking any advantage of that.

Like imagine a trait that says something like "Veteran Wariness: Even when surprised, you are never caught without weapon and shield at hand". Thats not mechanically complicated at all--in fact its mechanically simpler because you don't have to figure out their numbers without weapons. it doesn't add any complexity or length to the fight. But it adds flavor to the class in a way that has real impact on gameplay. Or something like "Shake it Off: For purposes of resisting spells, treat the fighter's HP as thought it were doubled." That isn't an extra manuever, the simplicity minded player who doesn't want to have to do too much thinking can still just stand around and attack, but it's at least something to give the class some flavor beyond hp, ac, attack, damage. There is so much more potential here to make even a "simple" fighter awesome.

I like what I'm seeing of the magic system. Spells as rituals, the bland of vancian and at-will, the HP thresholds on spells. Really good stuff.

Advantage/Disadvantage is awesome. if they combine with FATE style zones for combat, I could actually see it resulting in a moderately tactical, easy to play gridless combat engine, which would be a :):):):)ing miracle of rpg design. For example, if you move away from an adjacent melee combatant enemy, you are disadvantaged for one round--cuts down on the fiddliness and game time spent on attacks of opportunity, while still creating a degree of "stickiness". LOTS of potential here for handling a wide variety of combat situations in a simple way.

The monster design is very meh, but the core mechanical idea of "Monster X gains advantage when condition Y is met" isn't a bad one for simulating/incentivizing some monster behaviors, and I can see some potential for synergy there with monsters that put a character at disadvantage, then other monsters that can take advantage of that by gaining extra effects vs. disadvantaged characters. Obviously if this is how monsters look when the game ships that will suck, but I see potential in the system for brining in less fiddly version of 4e-style mechanical differentiation.

I'm not seeing at all how backgrounds could be made modular or how one would mix and match elements from different backgrounds to make your own--the different backgrounds offer varying numbers of skills, and a grab-bag of traits that really vary in utility in power, such that it'd be hard to know when merging two backgrounds how many skills your new background should have, or how much each feature is "worth".

I do like that lots of the features are binary rather than fiddly math bonuses. Dwarves don't get a bonus vs. poison--it straight up doesn't work. That speeds up play in a way that is flavorful and fun.
 

Argyle King

Legend
I see a few signs that Dex might be too good compared to the other stats. I noticed it because one of my old complaints about D&D is still in the rules -heavy armor tends to be worse than light armor.


Assuming I have maxed out Dex, I have AC 20 with Mithril.

The heavy armor user with Adamantine ends up with 18; while also losing 5 feet of movement and having 50lbs of extra weight to carry around.

...so, I end up being easier to hit, slower, and more encumbered.


My damage isn't as good because I had to sack other stats suck as Strength to get that high Dex, you say? Fortunately for me, I can pick up a weapon which allows me to use Dex for my melee attacks and damage. On top of that, Dex is used for ranged attacks. It gives me a better initiative too. I feel that Dex offers a little bit too much compared to some of the other abilities.

Personally, I'd like to see Initiative be free of abilities completely. Simply make initiative a flat d20 roll; maybe with a bonus of +1 for every 5 levels or something like that. Feats such as improved initiative can still exist if you want more of a bonus. Being surprised means you have Disadvantage for your initiative roll -thus rolling twice and taking the lower result.

I mention the weight of heavy armor because being encumbered means you have Disadvantage. So you potentially have worse AC, slower movement, a worse initiative, and Disadvantage for any checks you want to make.
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I see a few pretty easy ways to abuse Slayer training. If I'm fighting something with a high AC, I could potentially switch to a weapon which is normally worse for me so as to intentionally miss. Doing consistent damage with every attack (which could potentially be ranged attacks, so that ties in with the high Dex mentioned above) rather than doing more damage on only a few hits is potentially a worthwhile tradeoff against an opponent I have little chance of hitting anyway.
 


Mercutio01

First Post
I see a few pretty easy ways to abuse Slayer training. If I'm fighting something with a high AC, I could potentially switch to a weapon which is normally worse for me so as to intentionally miss. Doing consistent damage with every attack (which could potentially be ranged attacks, so that ties in with the high Dex mentioned above) rather than doing more damage on only a few hits is potentially a worthwhile tradeoff against an opponent I have little chance of hitting anyway.
Yeah, especially if you trade up to a bigger weapon that does more damage. You could theoretically hit for more damage than your normal weapon.
 

Kzach

Banned
Banned
not liking the 8 hour rest = full HP recovery.

Why not?

No scythes? Wtf? Heads will roll.

Not without scythes they won't :p

The rest mechanic I see being a factor until 2nd or 3rd level. Once the cash flow is good an herbalist can crank out 24 1d8 healing potions per 8 hour workday for 600gp. :p

24d8 of healing before needing to use any rest. :eek:
I don't see this as a problem assuming that they can't be sold and only work for party members.

The actual healing amount doesn't bother me particularly. Taking an action to drink and giving only 1d8 (average 4.5) healing is pretty weaksauce.
 

NewJeffCT

First Post
grrr - still having issues downloading. I get - Bad Request - Invalid URL - HTTP Error 400. The request URL is invalid.

This is after the initial URL - it was then go to the next page and then give me the invalid URL error. (I tried another browser, too)
 

Falling Icicle

Adventurer
Some of my first impressions:

The system seems quite simple and elegant, with just the right amount of complexity. None of the rules strike me as overly "gamist", which makes the simulationist in me happy.

Finesse Weapons let you use your Dexterity instead of Strength if you prefer. Hurray to getting rid of the feat tax that was weapon finesse!

I'm glad to see starting characters with double digit HP, though I'm still not clear on whether they are randomly generated or fixed. (I loathe randomly generated HPs).

We already knew there would be at-will cantrips, but it's worth celebrating anyway. And anyone can get a couple at-will basic spells (cantrips) by taking the Arcane Dabbler feat or Magic-User theme. Cool!

I like the way the spells are written. Very old school feel.

I love how they made some spells usable as rituals without preparation. Brilliant! Sadly they still have a gp cost, but we may be able to persuade them to go with something different, or at least give an extra benefit to the ritual version of the spell, such as longer durations or some such, to make the monetary expenditure more worthwhile.

Alot of spells use dice + ability modifier for spell damage/healing, like in 4e. I like this. I hope they bring back implements as well.

There is no caster level for spell damage, duration, etc.; Spells have fixed damage and durations (with the very odd exception of magic missile). Likewise, spell save DCs are 10 + ability modifier only, so they do not scale with spell level. Excellent. This fixes so many of the problems that plagued past editions with magic items, multiclassing, spells becoming obsolete, etc.

I don't like magic missile. I don't like the auto-hit or how they stuck to the old (gain 2 levels, add 1 more missile) thing. It just doesn't play well with the other spells in the game. It doesn't depend on intelligence, like other damaging spells do. It starts out too weak but eventually becomes too powerful, leaving other cantrips like shocking grasp in the dust.

I like the simplified armor table, but there seems to be no reason whatsoever (aside from a few pounds of weight and gp cost) not to use the best type of armor in each category. There should be a reason, IMO, to choose leather armor over a chain shirt, etc.

I love the intoxicated condition, except that it reduces the damage you take.
 
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