First Reaper, now Deadlands!

[Treebore]

No sir you are all kinds of wrong.

Reaper is an industry leader in the miniatures business. This means that their profits exceed that of WotC on the miniatures end.

And if you read the announcement, you will see that this is quite a different business model than Reaper has for nonrandom, prepainted minis. They are talking about multiple figures with "terrain, unit cards and more". You cannot buy them individually or even without frills.

When Reaper or Games Workshop sell boxes of 5 miniature figures, you can expect to pay $25-$30 for them. They are unpainted with no terrain or cards or dice or Cracker Jack prizes. For less figures than WotC sells in a random pack, I would expect the Deadlands sets to go for around $30. And since you're getting 5 figures in that package, you could be paying that much for only one or two that you actually want. It's a step up from random, twice as much, for half as many figures.

I fail to see where I am wrong. Could you state it simply?

 

[Twowolves]

And if you read the announcement, you will see that this is quite a different business model than Reaper has for nonrandom, prepainted minis. They are talking about multiple figures with "terrain, unit cards and more". You cannot buy them individually or even without frills.

I see a box of prepainted, non-random minis being offered in faction packs, complete with rules, cards and terrain. I dunno much about business models, but it's pretty much exactly the sort of thing WotC said can't be done.

When Reaper or Games Workshop sell boxes of 5 miniature figures, you can expect to pay $25-$30 for them. They are unpainted with no terrain or cards or dice or Cracker Jack prizes. For less figures than WotC sells in a random pack, I would expect the Deadlands sets to go for around $30. And since you're getting 5 figures in that package, you could be paying that much for only one or two that you actually want. It's a step up from random, twice as much, for half as many figures.

When Games Workshop sells a box of minis, you get plastic or metal parts to make 10 or 16 models of many different types (either crossbowmen or handgunners or rangers, all from one box, for example) for $40 or $45, respectively.

PEG is selling a game, not just a pack of minis. Sure, you can buy them just for the one or two figs you want, but that's not how they are being marketed. They are being marketed as a faction in a miniatures skirmish game. Theoretically, if you want one or two of the 5 figs, you would want all 5 of them. Assuming the terrain is not some resin cast cacti and tumbleweeds, and more along the lines of plastic or cardboard fold'n'glue buildings, I'd guess they'd sell each box for $20-$25. But since PEG has a much smaller market share than they did 7 years ago, I think you'd probably be spon-on at $30/pack. $6 per prepainted, well cast mini vs $4 per unpainted, unassembled GW mini sounds just fine to me, considering the PEG pack comes with an entire game in the box, and not $50 extra for a rulebook.

$6/fig vs $2 per random fig doesn't look as good, but considering how much you have to spend to get a specific DDM figure either in multiple random packs or on the secondary market, it might be a better deal than it looks on it's face!

 

[Twowolves]

Yes, but it's not anywhere near the level of response as to the Reaper announcement. This is an announcement made in January, and we have only about 20 replies.

Cheers!

Then again, this is a D&D messageboard, and Reaper's minis are targeted at D&D players. This is a skirmish game aimed at non-fantasy genre RPG'ers. I'm not surprised it hasn't gotten much airtime here.

 

[Kunimatyu]

$6/fig vs $2 per random fig doesn't look as good, but considering how much you have to spend to get a specific DDM figure either in multiple random packs or on the secondary market, it might be a better deal than it looks on it's face!

The comparison is almost irrelevant -- these packs going to be the only way to go if you want good prepainted Western miniatures (and no, don't link to the Crystal Caste stuff....ugh).

And, always...you really only have to spend $6+ to get a RARE on the secondary market. Even the most expensive of uncommons rarely hit that price ceiling. I'd call that a perfectly fair trade for the artificially low price on DDM commons and uncommons.

 

[JustKim]

I fail to see where I am wrong. Could you state it simply?

Yes. I disagree with the implication that Reaper is the little guy while WotC is running a scam to collect outrageous profits, and that what Pinnacle has planned proves much about how WotC could handle distribution.

 

[Twowolves]

The comparison is almost irrelevant -- these packs going to be the only way to go if you want good prepainted Western miniatures (and no, don't link to the Crystal Caste stuff....ugh).

And, always...you really only have to spend $6+ to get a RARE on the secondary market. Even the most expensive of uncommons rarely hit that price ceiling. I'd call that a perfectly fair trade for the artificially low price on DDM commons and uncommons.

I don't know where you get YOUR rares, but I don't have a single rare that didn't cost me $10-$20 on the secondary market. I still don't own a beholder, balor, red dragon, any of the demons or devils, or a chimera, because the price on each of these is over $20 anywhere I can find them.

PEG's figs don't have rarities, you see what you get. That means a LOT.

And, for some better prepainted non-random western minis, check out Heroscape!

 

[JustKim]

I see a box of prepainted, non-random minis being offered in faction packs, complete with rules, cards and terrain. I dunno much about business models, but it's pretty much exactly the sort of thing WotC said can't be done.

Huh? Not true. WotC said they couldn't individually sell the prepainted miniatures and make a profit- not even Reaper makes 60-80 figures in a run (at least, I don't think so); it would be market saturization and it would crash. There are many good reasons why, and it's all in a thread somewhere.

But WotC started selling individual minis with the Iconics series. They're discovering what works and what doesn't. There are plans to release a 3-figure set later in the year. There probably won't be terrain, and since one of the figures is a dragon it'll probably be more than $30, but they are working on ways to do what Pinnacle is proposing. This isn't what they're saying can't be done.

$6/fig vs $2 per random fig doesn't look as good, but considering how much you have to spend to get a specific DDM figure either in multiple random packs or on the secondary market, it might be a better deal than it looks on it's face!

Depending on where you buy, the prices of individual DDM pieces aren't that bad. Paizo's prices are pretty outrageous, but at Miniature Market the high end figures usually don't go above $30. For a large monster figure and the equipment to paint it from Reaper, you can expect to pay at least $30. It won't be as durable and it won't look as good the first few dozen times you try it either.

 

[was]

sweet looking sculpts

 

[JRR_Talking]

somebody bring out a Pirate pre-paint set!!!!!

 

[Frostmarrow]

somebody bring out a Pirate pre-paint set!!!!!

somebody bring out a Pulp pre-paint set!!!!!

I wish I had a million bucks. Then I'd go to www.pulpfigures.com and make a deal to release Murch's stuff in pre-painted plastic.

I would be so awesome and dress like a Liberace.