First Reaper, now Deadlands!

[CharlesRyan]

This is awesome news. I can't wait to get my hands on these!

Despite being one of the main defenders on these boards of the WotC miniatures business model, I couldn't be more thrilled with the advent of BE, AT-43, the Reaper minis, and now the Deadlands miniatures. I wish these companies all the success in the world, not least because I look forward to owning a whole lot of their minis. That said, a lot of people seem to think that these announcements "prove" that nonrandomized minis are a viable business model. Keep in mind that announcing a product--or putting out the first few releases of a line--doesn't make it profitable. The game industry is littered with the dessicated husks of desireable but unprofitable ideas.

I plan on buying lots of the first releases of these lines, and early. Who knows which, if any, of them will still be around a year from now?

 

[Thanee]

That sounds promising.

Deadlands is a cool background for a game and the minis could be useful for the RPG as well.


@CharlesRyan: Maybe it is of interest for you that Confrontation (Rackham's fantasy game) will also get a lot of prepainted plastics soon (apparantly they move to a similar model as their AT-43 and it seems they want to redo pretty much the whole line in prepainted plastic). That will produce a lot of fantastically sculpted fantasy miniatures.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Silver Moon]

That looks great! I plan to buy all twenty.

 

[Silver Moon]

somebody bring out a Pirate pre-paint set!!!!!

Could happen. Pinnacle is making these for its Deadlands game. They are soon putting out a Pirates of the Spanish Main RPG as well, so it's not too much of a stretch to think that minis might follow.

 

[Twowolves]

Huh? Not true. WotC said they couldn't individually sell the prepainted miniatures and make a profit- not even Reaper makes 60-80 figures in a run (at least, I don't think so); it would be market saturization and it would crash. There are many good reasons why, and it's all in a thread somewhere.

I read the threads, and the rationale behind them. Many people asked "why can't they release an orc pack/animal pack/undead pack with 6-12 non-random minis in it?" and others said "can't be done, here's why". We'll see how profitable these experiments are in the long run, but I certainly don't think multiple game companies jump into the prepainted, non-random miniatures market without doing some kind of market research that says it CAN be done, and at a profit.

But WotC started selling individual minis with the Iconics series. They're discovering what works and what doesn't. There are plans to release a 3-figure set later in the year. There probably won't be terrain, and since one of the figures is a dragon it'll probably be more than $30, but they are working on ways to do what Pinnacle is proposing. This isn't what they're saying can't be done.

I'm fully aware of the iconics line, and the 3 figure set to be released later this year. That set is already priced at around $50. So yeah, I guess a non-random figure is profitable for WotC if you charge $30-$75 for it. And I should hope so! Which, of course, isn't what people were talking about in the other threads. A dozen zombies/orcs/mooks of whatever flavor is what people were whining about wanting, not cheap individual ogres/minotaurs/beholders.

Depending on where you buy, the prices of individual DDM pieces aren't that bad. Paizo's prices are pretty outrageous, but at Miniature Market the high end figures usually don't go above $30. For a large monster figure and the equipment to paint it from Reaper, you can expect to pay at least $30. It won't be as durable and it won't look as good the first few dozen times you try it either.

Ok, great! Tell me where I can get a huge dragon, a demon, a devil, a beholder or chimera for under $25-$40! And for a large sized monster from Reaper, it'll cost around $15-$20 for anything but the most colossal of figures, and adding in the cost of paint and brushes to artificially inflate the single figure cost is dishonest. Paint and brushes and glue are almost one time investments, reusable over and over again (and cheap as dirt at Wal-Mart). And I can STILL with paint, brushes, glue and all get a Reaper metal mini demon or dragon cheaper than I can get a comparable DDM from the secondary market. And I certainly hope I can do a better paintjob on it than the "3 colors and a wash" that the D&D Minis line has!

 

[Pbartender]

When Reaper or Games Workshop sell boxes of 5 miniature figures, you can expect to pay $25-$30 for them. They are unpainted with no terrain or cards or dice or Cracker Jack prizes. For less figures than WotC sells in a random pack, I would expect the Deadlands sets to go for around $30. And since you're getting 5 figures in that package, you could be paying that much for only one or two that you actually want. It's a step up from random, twice as much, for half as many figures.

For the record...

Legendary Encounters™ is sold in a non-blind, non-collectible format. These miniatures will be packaged using Reaper’s existing standard blister card. As you can see below, smaller monster types are available in both a single pack and a 3 pack.

20001_____ Skeleton Swordsmen (3) $ 5.79
20002_____ Skeleton Archers (3) $ 5.79
20003_____ Skeleton Spearmen (3) $ 5.79
20004_____ Skeleton Swordsman $ 1.99
20005_____ Skeleton Archer $ 1.99
20006_____ Skeleton Spearman $ 1.99
20007_____ Orc Warriors with Scimitars (3) $ 6.99
20008_____ Orc Archers (3) $ 6.99
20009_____ Orc Spearmen (3) $ 6.99
20010_____ Orc Warrior with Scimitar $ 2.49
20011_____ Orc Archer $ 2.49
20012_____ Orc Spearman $ 2.49
20013_____ Cave Troll $ 3.99
20014_____ Ogre Chieftain $ 4.99
20015_____ Minotaur of the Maze $ 5.99

That's a lot less than $20-$30 for a pack of 5 (the orcs are 6 for $14, and the skeletons are 6 for less than $12), and these are the non-random prepainted plastic minis they are planning on releasing this summer.

 

[CharlesRyan]

I certainly don't think multiple game companies jump into the [insert whatever you want here] market without doing some kind of market research that says it CAN be done, and at a profit.

Umm. Are we talking about the same hobby game industry?

 

[DaveyJones]

Crap. Anyone driving to GenCon so I can pile all the minis I buy in their trunk?

yes. i'm taking my pickup truck. but your minis will end up in Atlanta.

 

[Imaro]

That sounds promising.

Deadlands is a cool background for a game and the minis could be useful for the RPG as well.


@CharlesRyan: Maybe it is of interest for you that Confrontation (Rackham's fantasy game) will also get a lot of prepainted plastics soon (apparantly they move to a similar model as their AT-43 and it seems they want to redo pretty much the whole line in prepainted plastic). That will produce a lot of fantastically sculpted fantasy miniatures.

Bye
Thanee

For Rackham's sculpts(if the plastics are as good as the metal) I would be willing to pay more, especially for my upcoming Iron Kingdoms/BESM 3e game. WotC doesn't really make mini's that fit with this world very well, but Rackham's are sweet.

My main problem with WotC's is the randomization, the increasing price point(started at $9.99 a pack and are now at $14.99 a pack thats $1.87 a mini now and totally comparable to the announced price point of reaper of about $2 a mini), and the diminishing returns on buying blind. I like the convenience of buying what I want when I need it, in the end I figure I will save money because I'm not buying unnecessary minis. If these companies are able to push their products through discount stores (like amazon) since I have to use the internet to purchase on the secondary market anyway, the price difference becomes even less(though sill more than random) at least comparable to buying packs of random's in an FLGS or at Borders.

In the end it comes down to convenience versus increase in price, and for me I don't want the hassle of trading and selling my extra mini's or having to search for the mini's I want. I'm not a retailer and never wanted to be so...as long as the price stays around what Reaper is proposing I think it's a great idea.

 

[Kunimatyu]

For Rackham's sculpts(if the plastics are as good as the metal) I would be willing to pay more, especially for my upcoming Iron Kingdoms/BESM 3e game. WotC doesn't really make mini's that fit with this world very well, but Rackham's are sweet.

My main problem with WotC's is the randomization, the increasing price point(started at $9.99 a pack and are now at $14.99 a pack thats $1.87 a mini now and totally comparable to the announced price point of reaper of about $2 a mini), and the diminishing returns on buying blind. I like the convenience of buying what I want when I need it, in the end I figure I will save money because I'm not buying unnecessary minis. If these companies are able to push their products through discount stores (like amazon) since I have to use the internet to purchase on the secondary market anyway, the price difference becomes even less(though sill more than random) at least comparable to buying packs of random's in an FLGS or at Borders.

In the end it comes down to convenience versus increase in price, and for me I don't want the hassle of trading and selling my extra mini's or having to search for the mini's I want. I'm not a retailer and never wanted to be so...as long as the price stays around what Reaper is proposing I think it's a great idea.

Reaper's pricepoint of $2-$2.50 per Medium figure, $4-6 per Large should definitely have an impact on WotC. If Reaper does the intelligent thing and makes a beholder, red dragon, and mindflayer('bathalian', sorry), things will get very interesting indeed.