First rule I don't like

Orryn Emrys · May 30, 2008

Mallus said:
If it's not, the DM is probably doing something wrong.

Unfortunately, this means that we must now fight with BANANAS.

Pbartender · May 30, 2008

Orryn Emrys said:
Unfortunately, this means that we must now fight with BANANAS.

PWNED.

malraux · May 30, 2008

If you want a more gritty version of this rule, just declare that 0hp for bad guys is not death, but near death. So that last sword slice was to the gut instead of the head, the fireball gave the person 90% full thickness burns, etc. They are beyond the reach simple magic to heal, but aren't fully dead yet. The PCs have a short time they can use to interrogate, but the dying creature isn't necessarily going to give useful info.

Ingolf · May 30, 2008

hong said:
Unfortunately, this means we must now fight with knives.

That's fine, so long as the winner only subdues the loser and does not kill him . . .

IanArgent · May 30, 2008

Funny, I never had a problem with this in a game where subdual damage is easy, cheap, and powerful (shadowrun). Generally speaking, the PCs never cared whether they killed the opponent or merely dropped them unconcious (barring squaring off against the cops, or the handful of bar brawls they were in - both cases where they did not escalate to dealy force if they could help it). I know the milieaux are different, but doesn't have to be a problem.

Being at 0 just means they are out of action - they are bleeding on the floor attempting to hold the blood in that's escaping from the stump of their hand could be a 0 HP status, but not immediately lethal. And that's within the realm of character decision - does he lop ff th hand, or stab in the chest?

Jim DelRosso · May 30, 2008

Sashi said:
D&D seems to be stealing a lot from Feng Shui. One of the rules in Feng Shui is that all of your characters are such supreme badasses that they only kill when they want to. Even with a shotgun to the face.

Actually, IIRC, Feng Shui did note that describing your action as "shoving the barrle of my M-16 down the guy's throat and pulling the trigger" meant you couldn't then declare that you just knocked him out.

All in all, I think this is a good rule. Heck, I invoked it last night to preserve the life of the clue-bearing witness that the party wizard decided to hit with an Acid Arrow. "He's alive, but very badly burned."

As for ranged weapons, depending on the skill of the attacker, I'd totally allow for Green Arrow-style subdual shenanigans.

hong · May 30, 2008

Jim DelRosso said:
Actually, IIRC, Feng Shui did note that describing your action as "shoving the barrle of my M-16 down the guy's throat and pulling the trigger" meant you couldn't then declare that you just knocked him out.

That's just because you haven't seen ME shove the barrel of MY M-16 down a guy's throat and pull the trigger.

Vayden · May 30, 2008

Similar to the old warp-drive rule ("The ship moves at the speed of plot"), in my games lethality will be house-ruled to "whatever is best for the story". Bar-fight? Non-lethal. Melee with people who don't necessarily have any information? Lethal. Fight with the NPC holding crucial information? Non-lethal if it's a good time for the PCs to have that information for the story, lethal other-wise.

That's my house-rule. I'm pretty flexible with it, but that's the general rule.

malraux · May 30, 2008

hong said:
That's just because you haven't seen ME shove the barrel of MY M-16 down a guy's throat and pull the trigger.

I love it when you talk dirty.

Zinovia · May 30, 2008

To preserve some degree of "Oops, I killed him by accident" you could just make the assumption that NPC's are sort of like the players in that they have a negative HP threshold in which they are dying, but not yet dead. If they take damage that reduces them below that threshold they are dead. Make the threshold whatever you like. -1/4 HP, or -10, or whatever other number makes you happy. So that critical strike with a daily by the fighter when BBEG was only at 3 hp remaining did "jog him too hard" and he's croaked. So much for interrogation this time.

If the bad guy is below zero, but above the designated threshold, then the characters can take a simple first aid check to stop the guy from dying, and interrogate him later.