First time rogue

[Pinotage]

About Dodge/Mobility: I don't really see any reason to pick those feats, other than going for Spring Attack. Tumble really covers the AoOs pretty well.

Bye
Thanee

I don't know. That +4 AC is useful, and combined with Total Defense you can almost move anywhere you want, irrespective of the number of opponents. While Mobility is not a prerequisite for rogue, Spring Attack is really useful and probably worth going for, particularly if you can spring in and out of a flanking attack. Quick Draw is also useful, and don't forget Weapon Finesse.

Pinotage

 

[Pinotage]

Also, Halfling is a very good option for this class.

On the surface halfling looks ideal, but you really get shafted in the damage dealing area. I know, you can sneak attack, but because Str is not a strong ability for rogues, you tend to end up with melee damage of 1d4 plus Sneak Attack. In scenarios where you can't sneak attack, unless you have some magic, you're next to useless.

Pinotage

 

[two]

On the surface halfling looks ideal, but you really get shafted in the damage dealing area. I know, you can sneak attack, but because Str is not a strong ability for rogues, you tend to end up with melee damage of 1d4 plus Sneak Attack. In scenarios where you can't sneak attack, unless you have some magic, you're next to useless.

Pinotage

No offense, but if you can't sneak attack as a rogue, you shouldn't be IN melee. Period. No exceptions. The downside (getting full attacked with middling AC and low hit points) is just too scary.

It takes a while to learn that lesson, but it's an important one.

Do other things. Use wands -- if you can. Throw tanglefoot bags. Shoot arrows.

But a rogue is never going to be useful in melee if they can't sneak attack; it's not much of a limitation being a halfling in this regard. A half-orc rogue without sneak attack is bad in combat too, and can't take hits worth anything.

The equation is:

If rogue can sneak attack = enter melee with care and leave early if necessary
If rogue can't sneak attack = don't ever, ever enter melee, but help the party in other ways.

 

[Thanee]

The biggest downside of the halfling (in melee) is the speed. Tumble further reduces that by half, then you only get an extended 5-ft. step in the end.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

But it's two feats. You don't have so many feats. And even then it's not automatic, but still only a better chance.

You just have to know your limits.

Low level speaking, you are exactly right: two feats seems too pricey for what you get.

At middling levels "know your limits" means using Spring Attack to avoid an unpleasant scenario. You cannot linger near, say, a Frost Giant and expect to live. If you Sneak Attack him, it will only mean he notices you. Fleeing is a necessity!

There is something to be said for going with Dwarf or Gnome as a Rogue because of the hit point problem two mentions. The reduced movement is not necessarily a big deal for a melee Rogue who intends to work closely with a heavily armed Fighter. It may well be worth gong with EPRock's idea and picking up first level Barbarian or Fighter for the extra HPs at first level, even if it costs skill points.

Assuming you want ot be a melee rogue, of course.

 

[Thanee]

...using Spring Attack...

Hey, I said, that it's cool, if you go for Spring Attack, but not, if you only want those two feats.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Len]

Advice for First time rogue

Here's what I've learned playing a rogue (currently rogue 7/Shadowdancer 7):

As others have said, only get into melee if you're pretty sure you can get out of melee before you're killed. If you can't sneak attack, you won't be doing much damage.

Sometimes that means that you won't have much to do during combat. My solution for that is to carry a handy haversack that contains one of everything. That is, every mundane or inexpensive magical item I can get.
"Just a sec, I've got... some chalk!"
"Just a sec, I've got... a golembane scarab!"
"Just a sec, I've got... a Quaal's tree token!"
When we're up against something I can't sneak attack, I start flipping through my equipment list.

Tumble is great for getting into flanking position or playing Gank The Mage.

Outside of combat, you'll have plenty to do because the rogue is the skills master. With your party makeup, your character can be the party face man (if he has any charisma at all). You can be the scout (Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen) and deal with locks and traps. Yes, we've found that it is helpful to disable traps rather than setting them off.

Feats: You don't get enough of them. I like Dodge (it's +1 AC about half the time) but if you've got Tumble then Mobility is only good as a pre-req for something else. Spring Attack would be great but I haven't been able to get it yet.

Other classes: I like Shadowdancer. A few levels of fighter is good, but if you've already got two fighters then I'd go for something different.

 

[Michael Morris]

Recently, I considered not spending skill points on Disable Device nor Open Locks.
Doors can usually be bashed down, or Knocked (by the Wizard) if they are really important.
Even then, is a door is meant as not to be passed you can do nothing.
If the door is a mere obstacle you will overcome it whether you have open locks or not.

Disable Device is not very useful since traps are lame.
No single trap can kill you.

You haven't played under the same DM's as I have you, or under me... <EG>

So why spend points in these two skills?

Your funeral. In my games the knock spell can set off traps - making it's usefulness dubious (I hate that spell's existance as a DM and an avid rogue fan).

Also, Halfling is a very good option for this class.

The last rogue I played went against the grain of combat oriented. With two fighters in the group you don't have to concentrate on whipping tail. Besides, if you want combat character why play a rogue? Play a fighter.

My last rogue had stats like this...

STR 7
DEX 20
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 18
CHA 10

I took weapon finesse at 1st level so I wouldn't completely blow chunks at combo and relied heavily on crossbow sniping (since crossbows don't care about your strength). Spot and Listen where my bread and butter, I twinked these out to +12 (+4 wis, +2 alertness, +2 tallfellow halfling bonus, 4 ranks). Drove the DM nuts cause he never could get the drop on the party. Open Locks, Disable Device and Search where the other highly maxed out skills.

I was the eyes and ears of the party. It was fun, while other players got to shine in the combats, between combats - during the exploration - was my time.

 

[sfedi]

No single trap can kill you?

What about poison traps which deal CON damage?

Your cleric can haev 2nd-level scrolls that prevent/cure that.

No big deal.

 

[sabres]

Thanks, there seems to be a lot of good information to digest. I like the idea of being able to use ranged weapons for sneak attack, plus that will keep me out of combat. Also, I don't think anyone in the group is a ranged specialist. I will probably be spokesman for the party as well since I don't think anyone has a good charisma. I also think I will go for being a human cause the extra feat and skill points will help.

Will a level or two in ranger help out more with the ranged weapons?