Five things that would change the game forever

[FreeTheSlaves]

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You've seen this before as books- the adventures were like "Encounter 1: empty room with 2 doors. Choose Door #1 go to Encounter 34, Choose Door #2 go to Encounter 112..." Adventures cost about $3-6, and ran about 20-30 3"x5" pages.
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Edit: Of course, now that I think about it some more.... a 3rd party publisher could possibly do this as a product line- either for solo adventures or party adventures. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Back in early high school/intermediate I created a random dungeon table running over 4-5 pages so me & my mate could actually both be players. The 'fine tuning' led to more & more work but I did manage to come up with a series of default tactics for the monsters; simple stuff like attempt to melee the wizard; flee if <1/2 hps or losses >= 1/2 starting numbers. By the time I realized I'd have to create a modulated standard I gave up.

I think you could do dm-less modules & I think they could be pretty fun but rules-rapists would have a field day. Still that's okay with me.

I'm really tempted to give this a go on a limited scale...

 

[RFisher]

I'm just listing the so-called sacred cows that always get mentioned in threads such as these.

For me, keeping any sacred cows didn't make 3e any more D&D for me. It's the things they did change that made it no longer D&D for me. The sacred cows just made it less the game I saw that it could be.

Generic classes or even a single very generic class. BAB & saves as skills. A different magic system. HP = Con & some sort of defense bonus. Those are things I saw on my first reading of the 3e PHB that would've made the game more appealling to me.

Keeping "sacred cows" in a vain attempt to make me feel it was D&D...well, it might have worked for a bit, but not long term.

Edit: Just about everything I would change about d20 has been done by someone now.

 

[pogre]

1) Alignment is eliminated once and for all
2) Ability scores are no longer numbers but simply bonuses
3) All spells, songs, and psionics are simply arcane magic (i.e. god's do not grant spells, magic is just magic)
4) Skills fall into one of 12 categories instead of the oppressive number that's out there now
5) Every prestige class can also be a core class

Without being a house-rule's post, any other thoughts?

jh

I agree with alignment and magic.

Ability scores to bonuses - not a big deal. Reminds me of stating Move scores in squares instead of feet.

Skills cause no problems in my campaign. I wouldn't mind an even more cascading system with general skill areas and more detailed skill subsets below them.

I would actually go with fewer classes and eliminate PrCs altogether - something more in line with what Grim Tales/ Modern does.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I for one would NOT like to see Spot/Search/Listen bundled together, as they cover very different things (and you'd have to write Perception +5 (Listen +8), which is just as bad). Same goes for Move Silently and Hide.

You misunderstand.

I'm talking about organizing sensory skills the same as Knowledge skills or Perform skills. You wouldn't have "Perception +5 (Listen +8)," you'd have "Perception (listen) +8." It's really a very minor change ... but it would, for instance, allow "Perception (scent)" or "Perception (blindsight)" or "Perception (tremorsense)."

 

[Plane Sailing]

I disagree. You extract alignment and lump in everything to one type of magic, it most certainly would alter several fundamental traits of the game. It would remove the fundamental good-versus-evil conflict nature of the game

I don't see how this follows - every fantasy RPG I've ever played has a fundamental good-verses-evil conflict going on, but only D&D has alignment (in its classic nine-fold sense).

The good-versus-evil conflict nature of an RPG can exist in complete independence from the D&D alignment system and frequently does.

Cheers

 

[Li Shenron]

1) Alignment is eliminated once and for all
2) Ability scores are no longer numbers but simply bonuses
3) All spells, songs, and psionics are simply arcane magic (i.e. god's do not grant spells, magic is just magic)
4) Skills fall into one of 12 categories instead of the oppressive number that's out there now
5) Every prestige class can also be a core class

1) even if I like the idea, I think alignment should stay in the game; it would be enough if it was made optional

2) this could be done, I don't see any reasons why not beside keeping the sacred cow of 3d6, which aren't 3 anymore btw

3) sometimes it bothers me some other times it doesn't... each spellcasting class has a separate magic after all (clerics and druids aren't completely compatible, they still have separate spell lists), so having "divine" and "arcane" just puts the classes together in groups with something in common

4) skills were one of the best addition of 3edition IMHO, but also this is the kind of thing that seems to change at every edition; I doubt that merging skills is a benefit, and I suspect that after doing so, there will be people who will want to split them again e.g. because they don't want to fully invest in hide & move silently but only in one of the two

5) like 2ed kits?

I'd add the following:

6) drop the rigid idea of "opposed elements" for elemental spells. They only origin from the fact that water puts out the fire & fire evaporates water. But earth doesn't suffocate air and air doesn't scatter earth. The concept is very weak, and there's no reason why someone who studies elements should be regularly forbidden to learn all of them.
At the same time, forever forget the idea of associating elements with energy typed damage, it just does NOT work unless you either change what are the elements and/or what are the energies; if they keep using Air+Water+Fire+Earth vs Fire+Acid+Sonic+Electricity+Cold, it will never match no matter how they try to fit them.

7) wizard specializations should not impose a complete ban on some schools, find out another sort of restriction instead; furthermore, make it so that specialization can be chosen later

8) spellbooks rules and 0gp material components should either be mandatory rules or otherwise got rid completely; IMXP they are just "forgotten" because most groups don't bother about them

 

[Psion]

The good-versus-evil conflict nature of an RPG can exist in complete independence from the D&D alignment system and frequently does.

Don't foist a false dichotomy on me. I never said that it couldn't exist in other games that lack alignment (or something similar).

I do think, however, it makes it much less implicit.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Don't foist a false dichotomy on me. I never said that it couldn't exist in other games that lack alignment (or something similar).

I do think, however, it makes it much less implicit.

The best way to reinforce an idea in the game is to develop mechanics that work off this idea. D&D is a game where various philosophies and lifestyles clash. Law and Chaos, Good and Evil. It's that way because of its' mechanics -- namely, alignment

Not that it couldn't be about that anyway, but the idea wouldn't get any rules support.

 

[wingsandsword]

8) spellbooks rules and 0gp material components should either be mandatory rules or otherwise got rid completely; IMXP they are just "forgotten" because most groups don't bother about them

Mandatory rules? Are those the ones the WotC Police come and take your books away if you break?

Most groups forget (or gloss over) 0gp components because the "component pouch" equipment item is presumed to have sufficient supplies of all the no-cost components (as well as being a storage space of more expensive components you actually buy). As for spellbook rules, I usually see wizards keep track of what spells are in their book, it's the expensive details of scribing I tend to see get ignored. Just get rid of the outrageous scribing fees.

 

[reveal]

It stopped being D&D when they got rid of size-based weapon damage, proficiencies, and THAC0.

It stopped being D&D when it became AD&D.