Fix Stat Polarity

[Garthanos]

Lol, this idea was "wouldn't have been cool if", implemented properly it would have been no different than STR vs AC instead it would have read STR vs STR.

Big deal. Not complicated. Maybe, even simpler than its current form because defenses are written into the stats themselves rather derived from one of two stats.

STR 18 +4/14

and at 10th level:
STR 18 +9/19

The complication.

Since the game is not implemented in this way it is a non-option, without a re-write of PHB.

I took it as a postulation on something for a 5e, but which might take too much choice out of the defenders hands.. but which had some merits even so...

 

[Garthanos]

Just In case I wasn't obvious this is officially yoinked. Hmmm I always tend toward verbose, but....

Secondary Defense (Combat Advantage modification)

"It is generally true that the hero will exploit his abilities to their maximum but when that very advantage has been taken from him, he may find his ability to adapt fails and even the greatest of armor may seem to be just so much weight holding him back".

Next to each of your defenses on your sheet write down a defense for when your adversary has combat advantage against you, it is calculated based on your secondary attribute in the associated defense category (If your intelligence is the higher reflex attribute then your secondary reflex defense will be based on Dexterity). For those in heavy armor the armors own AC bonus is halved (armor class from magic is unaffected by CA). This replaces the normal +2 benefit of Combat Advantage.

My paladin cringes at the idea of half armor class bonus for his plate!

 

[Fredrik Svanberg]

So do I.

I still think my idea of merging the abilities would work best to deal with this "problem". I'm going to suggest it for my own campaign this weekend and see what people think about it. So far we haven't really noticed a problem with abilities though, so I doubt anyone will care enough to use it.

I'd still like to know what other people think though. Is there something obvious I have missed that makes this a bad idea?

 

[keterys]

That sounds a bit more powerful than it should be. +5 to begin with should be rare. And you only get +10 total if you start with a 20 and get an ED that boosts your attack stat. I was thinking about start with a +4 and end up with a +8, and include the weapon/imlement expertise feats that seem to have been removed. Maybe with an epic version as well for +2 (but make sure they are untyped bonus so they don't devalue feat bonus to attack roll feats).

Yeah... that's why I said "catch hit up a little bit". I meant that hit currently lags behind defenses somewhat at the moment and I'm okay with catching things up slightly. You could do +4 to start, but 5 is a nice round number and means you're not making it _worse_ for anyone which should make it popular with players, and only +8 by 30 would make it worse for some PCs so no particular need to go that route, either.

 

[Garthanos]

I still think my idea of merging the abilities would work best to deal with this "problem".

It feels a problem for instance if you figure Strength and Con ... go together and the mechanics encourage otherwise, resulting in weird looking stats on characters
NOTE: sometimes this is supported by reality for instance the two muscle types fast and slow twitch result in people who have the highest strength never having the highest stamina and vice versa.
It also holds out that spirited individuals sometimes seem to be less likely to be the disceplined kind (see the Charisma and Wizdom Pair)
For Intellect and Dexterity its more along the lines of inward versus outward emphasis. High intellect tends to encourage inward perception and Dexterity encourages outward perception.

The above is a mixture of realistic and anequedotal ways of looking at all three defense pairings and their polarization effect.. and saying hey this does make some sense.

 

[Nymrohd]

With Weapon and Implement Expertise on PHB2 I think lack of hit is largely alleviated. Good day for players who started with a 16 at 1st level on their attack score (heck maybe I can start with a 16 and use a +2 prof weapon now!).

 

[Garthanos]

With Weapon and Implement Expertise on PHB2 I think lack of hit is largely alleviated. Good day for players who started with a 16 at 1st level on their attack score (heck maybe I can start with a 16 and use a +2 prof weapon now!).

Not having PHBII yet I think I require more explanation.

 

[Obryn]

Not having PHBII yet I think I require more explanation.

Weapon Expertise is a heroic-tier feat that looks like it's mainly intended for math tweaking.

It's a +1 to-hit for all powers (but not basic attacks). It goes up to +2 at 15th and +3 at 25th levels, IIRC.

It seems kinda like a must-have feat... I don't know that it's power creep per se, but I think it will be one of those "Well, obviously I took THAT" sorts of feats, like Superior Weapon Proficiency.

Interestingly, it helps characters with lower stats proportionally more than it does people with higher stats.

-O

 

[Sadrik]

So do I.

I still think my idea of merging the abilities would work best to deal with this "problem". I'm going to suggest it for my own campaign this weekend and see what people think about it. So far we haven't really noticed a problem with abilities though, so I doubt anyone will care enough to use it.

I'd still like to know what other people think though. Is there something obvious I have missed that makes this a bad idea?

It has merrit but then it does not feel like D&D with the 6 abilities and all.

 

[keterys]

It goes up to +2 at 15th and +3 at 25th levels, IIRC.

I hadn't heard that side... thought it was just +1.

Amusingly, then, I'd just remove that feat from the game if I made the chance, since that's pretty much the bonus I just gave, even down to the levels.