D&D 5E Fixing the 5E Fighter, episode 47 - extra combat style at 5th level?

[Quartz]

I was re-reading the PHB yesterday, and spotted a major oddity: all the fighting classes get Extra Attack at 5th level, but all apart from the Fighter get more than that.

The Ranger and the Paladin get spells, and the Barbarian gets Fast Movement. So the Fighter is losing out. Yes, the Fighter gets an ASI at 6th level, but the other classes get stuff at 6th level too.

So how about giving the Fighter an extra Combat Style at 5th level? It ties in well with the Fighter's shtick.

 

[Kryx]

5e did a great service in eliminating nearly all cases where builds focused on one specific weapon or fighting style. Some of those options remain: Fighting Styles and weapon specific feats like GWM or Sharpshooter.

By having a martial character choose TWF, GWF, Archery, etc it's bringing back some of this idea that characters should do one thing really well and ignore the rest. This, imo, has a negative impact on play as martial characters are much less likely to switch to their inferior style as needed.

Based on that I'm of the opinion that fighting styles should grant all the options - at least all the offensive options. For example if you take the offensive fighting style and wield a bow you have +2 to hit, or you have +2 to damage when wielding a one handed weapon. None of them can be used simultaneously so there isn't a balance issue here.
It's a bit trickier for defensive options. I currently bundle protection and defensive and have the player choose one, but that defeats the purpose slightly as S&B isn't a viable option to switch to.

If you don't want to go that route then adding a second fighting style would likely result in the fighter taking defensive for +1 AC. If you think Fighters need the AC then go for it.
I'd find a different option.

 

[Li Shenron]

I was re-reading the PHB yesterday, and spotted a major oddity: all the fighting classes get Extra Attack at 5th level, but all apart from the Fighter get more than that.

The Ranger and the Paladin get spells, and the Barbarian gets Fast Movement. So the Fighter is losing out.

The Fighter isn't losing out because Extra Attack multiplies/stacks with Action Surge!

So with Extra Attacks the Fighter gets 2 attacks instead of one every round, and it also gets 2 bonus attacks instead of one every short rest, meaning that once per short rest the Fighter can now do 4 attacks in a single round.

 

[The Old Crow]

I would have loved for fighting styles to be something fighters could learn many of, and switch between, rather than have to go to feats. I think Kryx though has a good point about letting them be always on, it would encourage choosing fighting styles that stack well and you might not see much variety unless you changed them.

 

[Quartz]

The Fighter isn't losing out because Extra Attack multiplies/stacks with Action Surge!

Only once or twice per short rest.

 

[Quartz]

BTW As pointed out in a now-lost thread, one of the best uses of the Fighter's Action Surge is as an escape power.

 

[bedir than]

I'm tempted to give Fighter Extra Attack at 1st level. Yes, there are dipping issues, but to me the class as a whole does not feel like it's the best at fighting. Yes, I know the math is pretty neutral. Again, the feel should be that no other class is better at fighting with non-magical weapons. There are rogue builds that are essentially always on Sneak Attack that crush a Fighter.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I would caution feeling like you need to add something to the fighter based on what you see in the book. Only make changes based on what your experiences are in actual play would be my advice.

 

[Guest 6801718]

Based on what I've seen in play with my group, the fighter seems fine. I play a vengeance paladin. We also have a berserker barbarian and a hunter ranger. The battle master fighter keeps up with all of us just fine. When that action surge sees play, it's pretty nasty. His damage output and the benefits of his maneuvers seem just as helpful as the spells or abilities of the rest of the group. Plus the extra feats or ABI can really put a fighter ahead of the curve, especially in lower levels. Some builds of paladin, barbarian, or ranger have to wait a while to get those good feats like great weapon master or pole arm master. Fighters can get access to those toys earlier or get their ability scores up faster for more reliable hits or more damage. Fighters have come a long way from being the guy who lugs around the wizard's gear. The great weapon fighter is considered one of the most damaging classes in 5e. So don't sweat their effectiveness.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I was re-reading the PHB yesterday, and spotted a major oddity: all the fighting classes get Extra Attack at 5th level, but all apart from the Fighter get more than that.

The Ranger and the Paladin get spells, and the Barbarian gets Fast Movement.

So the Fighter is losing out.

I am shocked, shocked I tell you, to see the fighter getting the short end of the stick. That is a deviation from no prior edition at all, and at odds with no precedent in D&D history, whatsoever.

Seriously, though, every edition of D&D tries to bring the fighter up to snuff, and every edition fails.

Yes, the Fighter gets an ASI at 6th level, but the other classes get stuff at 6th level too.

So how about giving the Fighter an extra Combat Style at 5th level?

It wouldn't hurt. Well, it might hurt a little if the fighter gets a nifty magic weapon that is only useable with one of those styles. Or it might just lead, as Kryx points out, to most fighters taking Defensive Style, for the 'free' +1 AC, since it'd be compatible with most other styles - which might not be so bad, either.

I would caution feeling like you need to add something to the fighter based on what you see in the book. Only make changes based on what your experiences are in actual play would be my advice.

Good advice. Well, sorta. I'd elaborate on it and say: go ahead and make house-rules based on what you see in the book, at the outset of the campaign.

But always be ready to make rulings in play, based on what happens in actual play.