5E Fixing the fighter (I know...)

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
If I did, it would require your bonus action to grant the bonus to their attacks or damage rolls, but using YOUR INT modifier, NOT theirs!!
Hmmm bonus action only 1 reactions ... bah give me back my minor action. :) However if you are just hitting an enemy and revealing there openings it makes sense without any separate action - so on a hit any ally or yourself gains a bonus on the next subsequent attack against that same enemy
 

Arnwolf666

Adventurer
The Champion fighter is the ideal sidekick or drop-in character
No. I see alot of experience players prefer the
Champion over the battle master because they like the simplicity and that the class feels like the learned today fight on their own through brawling the hard way. Battle master has the feel of a fighter that trained at the equivalent of formal swordsman school like the dueling schools during the renaissance. Less artsy.
 

dnd4vr

Hero
No. I see alot of experience players prefer the
Champion over the battle master because they like the simplicity and that the class feels like the learned today fight on their own through brawling the hard way. Battle master has the feel of a fighter that trained at the equivalent of formal swordsman school like the dueling schools during the renaissance. Less artsy.
Actually, I prefer the Champion over the Battlemaster simply because of bookkeeping. I despise the idea of Superiority Dice and using them. I would have preferred the Battlemaster have at-will abilities, even fewer of them, with less bonuses.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Actually, I prefer the Champion over the Battlemaster simply because of bookkeeping.
4e encounter powers you do not have to remember what you have done between one fight and the next are significantly less brain over head than 5e short rest which is closer to just another daily gadget. That remembering from one fight to the next seems an annoyance to me.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Once you reveal your trick... you cannot pull it off against the enemies its revealed to makes more sense than a disarm being exhausting and requiring some 1 hour rest too.
 

Ratskinner

Adventurer
Sounds like Fighter + Rogue, really. ;)

Heroes might get a 'tragic flaw,' though. Something they can overcome, now & then... or, y'know... finish their Story as a Tragedy.

OK, you're get'n into Champions! disads here. Psych Lims, Hunteds...
Not quite. I didn't want to write too superlong of a post, but these things aren't just anti-quirks that you pick for the sake of ignoring them later. They would be grist for leveling mill via the Heroic Achievements. The HAs would be things like "Turn a villainous lieutenant." or "Get the villain's daughter to fall in love with you." never something as simple as "Slay 100 orcs" always a story arc.

If something like "Tragic Flaws" are involved, I would make them GM-invoked. Like, you go to do something and the GM says: "Yeah, too bad you're a <whatever the flaw is>>, and you fail." This might come with an Inspiration point or something. Optionally, the player can refuse, and take the course of action they wanted to, but they would suffer some sort of ongoing problem because of it.
 

Undrave

Adventurer
I think the thing that bugs meabout the 5e Fighter is that it's just built on the same skeleton as the 3e one isn't it? What was the thing said about Fighters in 3e when people complained it wasn't strong enough? "They get more feat than everybody!"

The basic Fighter is basically still the 3e Fighter : More attacks, more feats, less skills, more armor and weapons.

Sure, it has more bells and whistles, but it doesn't feel like there was much reflection put into WHAT a base Fighter should be.

I think the Sentinel Feat should have been included in the core fighter, probably as two different ability (first you get the 'stop movement on a Opportunity Attack' and later on you'd get the 'get opportunity attack when enemy attacks someone else' bit). Maybe even throw in an extra Reaction at later level? That could have been sweet...

But it doesn't really do much to help in the other pillars.
 
I think the thing that bugs meabout the 5e Fighter is that it's just built on the same skeleton as the 3e one isn't it?
Not really. Where's the superior BAB? The elegant progression?

What was the thing said about Fighters in 3e when people complained it wasn't strong enough? "They get more feat than everybody!"
To be fair, the 3e fighter got 18 feats, vs 7. 5e, 7 vs 5.
Also 5e feats: still optional.

I think the Sentinel Feat should have been included in the core fighter, probably as two different ability.
Wouldn't've hurt.
Maybe even throw in an extra Reaction at later level? That could have been sweet...
Fighter should get extra reactions at the same rate as extra attacks.

But it doesn't really do much to help in the other pillars.
Nope.
 
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Phion

Explorer
Extra reactions seem perfect honestly. The indomitable feature is a bit lacklustre, personally I would have made it so it could be used 3 times from the start or make it so it can be used after a short rest instead of long rest.
 

Undrave

Adventurer
Extra reactions seem perfect honestly. The indomitable feature is a bit lacklustre, personally I would have made it so it could be used 3 times from the start or make it so it can be used after a short rest instead of long rest.
Extra reactions, especially with a caveat like "You can only make 1 opportunity attack per turn", would also make the Protection fighting style less inferior. If you can only make 1 opportunity attack, but you have extra reactions, and an enemy makes multiple attack on your ally, you can just decide to attack once thanks to Sentinel, then use Protection for another.
 

Phion

Explorer
Extra reactions, especially with a caveat like "You can only make 1 opportunity attack per turn", would also make the Protection fighting style less inferior. If you can only make 1 opportunity attack, but you have extra reactions, and an enemy makes multiple attack on your ally, you can just decide to attack once thanks to Sentinel, then use Protection for another.
That would possibly be the more balanced version, oddly enough sentinel feat can still be used and opportunity attack still open for use
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Nyeh I would allow opportunity attacks if you have a reaction available its not like being able to make more than 1 is some horror story.
 
Nyeh I would allow opportunity attacks if you have a reaction available its not like being able to make more than 1 is some horror story.
....a limit of 1/enemy would help head off bag-o-rats style silliness....

...but, yeah, apart from mechanical artifacts, part of the point is probably to take multiple OAs, or the like, so the threat the fighter poses remains credible.
 

Manbearcat

Adventurer
I'll going to put an addendum to my post upthread and since this is 5th edition that is being talked about here, I'll use that system to express the concept.

One of the most impactful aspects of an athlete who is the apex predator, the absolute pinnacle of the dominance hierarchy (the proverbial king, or queen, of the jungle), is how the rest of the members of that hierarchy are either emboldened by their presence (if they share cause) or they absolutely wilt in their presence (if they are opposed).

Tiger Woods overwhelmingly won on Friday and Saturday. What happened on Sunday? Being caught in his orbit, his competition wilted under that overwhelming task (playing below, often well below, their natural capabilities) time_after time_after time_after time. Tiger wasn't a comeback king. He was an absolute front-runner with his ability to just hit clutch shots when he needed to just completely debilitating his opponents who were absolutely top of the food chain...if not for one Tiger Woods.

Michael Jordan and the Bulls?

Exact same thing. Teams were beaten before they took the court. Overwhelmingly, opposition (guys who, again, were absolute far, far, far end of the distribution of human capability) spoke in reverential, fearful tones of him (while they were in the freaking league together)...never wanting to draw his ire and give him (and through him, his teammates) cause to grind them into absolute dust.

The weight of his presence, the specter of inevitability through him looming:

1) Moralized allies to heights they would be not be capable of otherwise.

2) Demoralized opposition to depths that they otherwise had no business falling to.

How do you accomplish this in 5e?

Simple,

Reskin the Diviner Subclass ability Portent and have it work mechanically in exactly the same way (because that is effectively what happens in our world).
 

TheCosmicKid

Adventurer
Reskin the Diviner Subclass ability Portent and have it work mechanically in exactly the same way (because that is effectively what happens in our world).
Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan normally play against humans.

Fighters often find themselves in battle against black puddings.

I'm not sure the same psychological rules apply.
 

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