D&D 5E Fixing the fighter (I know...)

[Garthanos]

Saying a fighter can never do or be heroic, that’s a falsehood. When you keep repeating it, that’s repeating falsehoods. Not sure how you can say you aren’t, and it’s not really an attack on you to point that out

The trick is inconsistency sure he can kill smallish dragons at epic levels but he is so narrowly restricted to mundane ability in most general regards its rather leaving this non caster overshadowed by even real people let alone the legends and myths, Conversely as Tony points out the casters do the opposite and blow the hell out of myths and legends doing things Gods of Magic would drool over.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Well, I decided to put my money where my mouth is and take a stab at writing a "Heracles" class. Results here:

The Paragon

 

[Hussar]

Uh... hate to break it to you, but some of us might not be saying more about your unproductive argument/attitude because we think it'd be a waste of our time. Doesn't mean we're okay with it. Please don't speak for us.

You might not agree with me, and that's fine. Disagreement is groovy. But, you can still understand the point I'm trying to make, and even are capable of building a home-brew class based on the arguments I was making. Seems rather productive to me. Funny how apparently my "lies" and "unproductive argumentativeness" has resulted in prodding you to create a complete class that addresses all my criticisms.

I'd call that pretty darn productive, but, hey, apparently I'll just be told I'm lying again.

 

[Hussar]

And, quickly perusing your classes, @TheCosmicKid, I'd say they hit the notion pretty square. Maybe need to tweak the math a smidgeon but, I'd leave that to folks who are better at that than I am. But, yes, that's pretty much exactly the sort of thing I would love to see.

 

[DND_Reborn]

And, quickly perusing your classes, @TheCosmicKid, I'd say they hit the notion pretty square. Maybe need to tweak the math a smidgeon but, I'd leave that to folks who are better at that than I am. But, yes, that's pretty much exactly the sort of thing I would love to see.

While you think this is a good start, my initial read on it is this is totally OP (like most homebrews IME). If that is what you are looking for, cool, but it would never play at my table.

A blend between the Fighter and the Paragon might work, however.

 

[FrogReaver]

First off you have to fix the problem that Rogues and Bards can be better at Athletics than a fighter. That would personally go a long way with me. Thondar should be strongest there is!

Perhaps it was a mistake to allow expertise to apply to any skill. Maybe it should have been assigned to traditional skills for the rogue/bard. That would leave other classes their skill niches.

 

[Phion]

2nd edition Pathfinder did a fantastic fighter in my opinion, opportunity attack being a fighter specific feature adds a lot and the range of triggers made it more likely to occur. Also being trained as expert (+4) with weapons compared to everyone else being trained (+2) is so great, especially when you consider that beat a npc's AC by 5 is a crit.

In edition they get a feature later on where they can pick and chose fighter specific feats in a way similar to spellcasters picking and choosing spells. In short 2nd edition pathfinder has pretty much solved any issue I had with fighter (and I had a few in 5th, namely that I could make characters in other classes who can fight as well with all the utility included).

 

[Garthanos]

Perhaps it was a mistake to allow expertise to apply to any skill. Maybe it should have been assigned to traditional skills for the rogue/bard. That would leave other classes their skill niches.

Maybe but I think of it as character design flexibility.. I built many a noble dilettante as mechanically a Rogue but cut purse and lock pick meh ... waste of extra proficiency. ( sure I could imagine he is a Leonardo Davinci who does clock work creations ). Give the fighter expertise and 9 out of 10 it will be athletics.

 

[FrogReaver]

Maybe but I think of it as character design flexibility.. I built many a noble dilettante as mechanically a Rogue but cut purse and lock pick meh ... waste of extra proficiency. ( sure I could imagine he is a Leonardo Davinci who does clock work creations ). Give the fighter expertise and 9 out of 10 it will be athletics.

Oh it is definitely character design flexibility - but it's at the expense of character playability for the other classes!

And you are strongly mistaken. If fighters got expertise it most likely would go into something other than athletics IMO.

Whereas Rogues nearly always put expertise in stealth - because stealth is actually a useful skill, whereas athletics is only particularly useful if you want to knock guys prone in combat - which usually isn't all that useful of a thing to do since it means you are not attacking!

 

[Garthanos]

Whereas Rogues nearly always put expertise in stealth - because stealth is actually a useful skill, whereas athletics is only particularly useful if you want to knock guys prone in combat.

Admittedly I am thinking about improving Expertise anyway so it would make iconic cool naughty word happen reliably and more influenced by 4e so.... hmmmm.

Arent people discussing ways to get fighters to have more diverse ability