D&D 5E Fixing the fighter (I know...)

[Hussar]

@Hussar i second this. Its clear we are talking about he-man singing hey-ey-ey ey ey along to the nonblonds on another planet with super gravity not phelps vocalizing a the eheh heh heh stoner laugh in a hot tub while he "trains". What are you repeating for? Giant armor wearing cat companion. Not personally contracted pizza and keef fetching coffee boy/girl.

Good grief. Is that meant to be English? I have absolutely no idea what this gibberish is.

 

[Hussar]

But fighters and the like run up against limits in D&D long before fully emulating their sources of inspiration - and those sources aren't even always fantasy/myth/legend, they can even come up short trying to emulate historical figures.
For classes that are, by definition, equally weighted player choices, that's an issue.

This needs to be quoted for truth and the point I've been badly trying to make.

Like I said before, if the only way I can swim faster than Michael Phelps or run faster that Usain Bolt is through magic, then, well, fighters can never be actually legendary. Contests vs CR 8 creatures aside. ((Never minding that my 20th level rogue could probably kill said T-Rex as well, as could virtually any 20th level character. Hardly makes me legendary when I'm doing the same thing as everyone else around me.))

 

[Hussar]

Supernatural is not power level. Levitating a match stick with psychokinesis is supernatural. Bench pressing 1000lbs is not.

I was going to say that this sounded pretty supernatural, but, the current world record (according to my 10 second Google search) is a hair over 1000 pounds.

However, how many DM's would allow a 20th level 20 Str fighter to lift 1000 pounds? I'm betting not too bloody many. Yet, a 9th level wizard can not only do it with a Telekinesis spell, he can do it automatically.

And, frankly this is the problem that I'm having. The fighters can NEVER do anything beyond what is mundanely possible (and frequently not even that) unless the gain access to magic.

 

[FrogReaver]

I was going to say that this sounded pretty supernatural, but, the current world record (according to my 10 second Google search) is a hair over 1000 pounds.

However, how many DM's would allow a 20th level 20 Str fighter to lift 1000 pounds? I'm betting not too bloody many. Yet, a 9th level wizard can not only do it with a Telekinesis spell, he can do it automatically.

And, frankly this is the problem that I'm having. The fighters can NEVER do anything beyond what is mundanely possible (and frequently not even that) unless the gain access to magic.

I tend to agree but...

A few thoughts

How many lbs would a fighter need to be able to lift to fix your problem?

Most mundane people would die from even a young dragon. A level 20 fighter should be able to slay those by himself with no problem. A mundane non-magical hero being able to do that is pretty legendary.

I think that high level fighters are already legendary and I don't think them lifting 1000lbs or jumping a little further or holding their breath a little longer is going to change that. It's just the kinds of things they can do are always going to be eclipsed by the things the caster can do.

 

[Hussar]

they can do are always going to be eclipsed by the things the caster can do.

Thus the crux of the issue. Either rein in casters or let mundanes be legendary.

 

[FrogReaver]

Thus the crux of the issue. Either rein in casters or let mundanes be legendary.

I think you missed the point I was making - they are both legendary - it's just one is more legendary than the other

 

[DND_Reborn]

This needs to be quoted for truth and the point I've been badly trying to make.

Like I said before, if the only way I can swim faster than Michael Phelps or run faster that Usain Bolt is through magic, then, well, fighters can never be actually legendary. Contests vs CR 8 creatures aside. ((Never minding that my 20th level rogue could probably kill said T-Rex as well, as could virtually any 20th level character. Hardly makes me legendary when I'm doing the same thing as everyone else around me.))

No one (as far as I know) is saying a fighter couldn't swim faster than Michael Phelps or run faster than Usain Bolt, as I am sure someday there will be people who accomplish those things naturally.

There are two issues I think that are really the point here:

1. the 5E system has no rule for modelling such things.
2. even if it did have rules for such things, that means that anyone (not just a Fighter) could likely accomplish such things.

For example, there are no rules for sprinting. Using the 5E system of move + dash in 6 seconds, a character would need a speed of over 100 to even come close to the world record for a 100 m sprint. Even if such a rule existed, monks and rogues would have a better chance of somehow doing it over fighters.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think you missed the point I was making - they are both legendary - it's just one is more legendary than the other

Animal Farm.

 

[Hussar]

No one (as far as I know) is saying a fighter couldn't swim faster than Michael Phelps or run faster than Usain Bolt, as I am sure someday there will be people who accomplish those things naturally.

There are two issues I think that are really the point here:

1. the 5E system has no rule for modelling such things.
2. even if it did have rules for such things, that means that anyone (not just a Fighter) could likely accomplish such things.

For example, there are no rules for sprinting. Using the 5E system of move + dash in 6 seconds, a character would need a speed of over 100 to even come close to the world record for a 100 m sprint. Even if such a rule existed, monks and rogues would have a better chance of somehow doing it over fighters.

I dunno.

Fighter Level X (whatever level you want to set it at) - When determining the DC of any Skill Athletics or Acrobatics check, subtract 5 (then 10 later on) from the DC for this level fighter. Any Athletics or Acrobatics skill check which achieves higher than 30 result allows the fighter to perform a legendary action as determined by the DM. Possible examples might be racing up the side of a mounting, running across a river, lifting an entire sailing ship out of the water.

Seems fairly simple to add something like that into the game.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I dunno.

Fighter Level X (whatever level you want to set it at) - When determining the DC of any Skill Athletics or Acrobatics check, subtract 5 (then 10 later on) from the DC for this level fighter. Any Athletics or Acrobatics skill check which achieves higher than 30 result allows the fighter to perform a legendary action as determined by the DM. Possible examples might be racing up the side of a mounting, running across a river, lifting an entire sailing ship out of the water.

Seems fairly simple to add something like that into the game.

Well a simple feature would be akin to Reliable Talent, but progressive, and could even be part of Remarkable Athlete or stand alone:

At 3rd level, you choose either Acrobatics or Athletics. Whenever you make an ability check and can add your proficiency from the skill you have chosen, treat any result on the roll less than your level in the Fighter class as your level in Fighter. Once you use this feature, you cannot use it again until you have finished a short or long rest.

Ex. A 10th level Fighter chose Athletics. Any roll of 9 or less on the d20 is considered a 10. At 15th level, any result below 15 would be a 15, and so on. With maximum +5 ability score modifier and +6 proficiency bonus, a 20th level Fighter would always get a total of 31.

The DM can resolve the totals however he wants really. Add Prodigy to get double your proficiency bonus and the total could be 37 even. How much that can accomplish and how legendary it is would be up to the DM, style of play, and the table.