D&D 5E Fixing the fighter (I know...)

[5ekyu]

Classically the wizard makes those choices one day out in the field then the next pick a different set of choices.

So, if the wizard split his spells learned, then they can have both combat option and other options? Huh?

But for the fighter "fix" we are to assume only combat options chosen?

 

[Mistwell]

Fair point on the ability score, but rolling for a skill, proficiency or not, is basically just letting the dice decide. It's still the baseline everybody gets and not something unique. It's lacking in flavor you know? Sometimes your high Wisdom character keeps rolling below 5 on his ONE useful skill >.<

Rogues get expertise and later

Woah. First, expertise is still just letting the dice decide.

Second, if "later" doesn't count for the fighter, why would it count for the rogue?

I am sensing a double standard here.

It IS nice. If Fighters got their subclass earlier like the Cleric then those would actually be a great feature.

No now we definitely have shifting positions. Earlier people said "before level 6". So I listed a bunch which come at level 3, and now that doesn't count either? And the counter-example is one of the only classes that get their big subclass ability at level one?

Are we going to have a fair discussion here or not? Of course level three counts. MOST classes get their subclass at level 3. It's OK to use level 3.

 

[Garthanos]

So, if the wizard split his spells learned, then they can have both combat option and other options? Huh?

But for the fighter "fix" we are to assume only combat options chosen?

The martial types making their choices once and forever bound to those choices... are any of those choices as reliable as a spell... For instance can I during epic simply decide to make a sudden escape skill check and the entire party is out of the line of fire, with basically no chance of being followed.

 

[5ekyu]

Fair point on the ability score, but rolling for a skill, proficiency or not, is basically just letting the dice decide. It's still the baseline everybody gets and not something unique. It's lacking in flavor you know? Sometimes your high Wisdom character keeps rolling below 5 on his ONE useful skill >.
I guess that happens to everybody but DnD doesn't make skill failiures particularly interesting unless a pit is involved.

Rogues get expertise and later a power that prevents them from rolling poorly. Meanwhile casters get some "Press button to do X" spells where the result is basically assured. Sure they can't do it at-will, I know, but it's just nice to know that when the situation arise you got more chance to pull something off than not.



It IS nice. If Fighters got their subclass earlier like the Cleric then those would actually be a great feature.



Pretty sure I and others have mentionned the whole 'unique' aspect before? Maybe not in this thread I suppose. Sorry.

But maybe it's all a perception thing... Class features are like Halloween candy (its in season): everybody got mini chocolate bars and lollipops and the Fighter got more lollipops than everybody else, but he's looking at the other kids and they have fancy bubblegum and sour candy and some of their chocolates are mini reeses bars and they'd like to try some but nobody wants to give them any saying "You got all those lollipops! you should be happy!" but always the same stuff gets boring after a while.

And of course there's the way that combat feat are generally weighted in builds if you look at guides out there.

Maybe the Fighter SHOULDN'T have had their class features shunted off to optional rules land like in 3e and had actual unique style to it? Keep the extra ASI for the Champion?

And maybe I'm just not a good enough player to make do with a few skills and improvisation? I mean, I do suck at using illusions too. So of course I should be told to sit in the corner while the Casters bend the universe or shut up when the smart players are talking.

I used to be decent at small scale tactical combat but that was pretty much gutted out of the game so maybe I'm just bitter too. I'm one of those filthy boardgamer who prefers to use... minis

Maybe new out of combat stuff is not NEEDED for the Fighter to balance with other classes, but I can't help but think it would still be more fun if it did have unique stuff of its own. Can you really argue against that?

"I guess that happens to everybody but DnD doesn't make skill failiures particularly interesting unless a pit is involved."

D&D 5e says a failed ability check can be just no progress or it can be some progress with setback. That pretty much is the default definition, not some variant rule. So if skill failures are not being interesting, that's on the GM, not the system.

D&D 5e also has more interesting options that let ability scores play a role on the roll in non-dice decide ways. The auto-success of ability score beaten by 5 the DC for instance in the DMG under running the game.

 

[FrogReaver]

So, if the wizard split his spells learned, then they can have both combat option and other options? Huh?

But for the fighter "fix" we are to assume only combat options chosen?

Im not goina do the analysis here but try to make a fighter that only takes out of combat feats sometime. See how suck In combat he is - even compared to wizards

 

[5ekyu]

The martial types making their choices once and forever bound to those choices... are any of those choices as reliable as a spell... For instance can I during epic simply decide to make a sudden escape skill check and the entire party is out of the line of fire, with basically no chance of being followed.

Nope, the classes are different. They have different strengths. They do different things. So, picking one thing one class might be able to do in some circumstances does not show anything wrong.

Is it your position that in order to be fixed fighter must get like 7th level transport spells once they hit 14th? Is that enough?

 

[Mistwell]

Im not goina do the analysis here but try to make a fighter that only takes out of combat feats sometime. See how suck In combat he is - even compared to wizards

Oh that's easy - they still rock in combat. I can answer that from experience, at least for the Battlemaster.

 

[FrogReaver]

Oh that's easy - they still rock in combat. I can answer that from experience, at least for the Battlemaster.

Your definition of rock needs some serious reflection

 

[Garthanos]

Nope, the classes are different. They have different strengths. They do different things. So, picking one thing one class might be able to do in some circumstances does not show anything wrong.

Is it your position that in order to be fixed fighter must get like 7th level transport spells once they hit 14th? Is that enough?

OH my I give one example and that is now the only case LOL .... I said are any of those choices as reliable as a spell.

Spells have long been described as incredibly hard but in practice they act like nothing incredibly hard ... no failures no eratic results just pays them dues and get your benefits.

 

[DND_Reborn]

As a point of interest (possibly), we just had a Fighter/Barbarian character take Keen Mind as his newest feat. He did it because he wanted to hep with travel (always knowing north), when the sun would be up, etc. Even the +1 boost to INT was secondary to everything else. He didn't even realize it would raise his INT modifier LOL!