Fixing the paladin in 5 easy steps.

[Kzach]

I felt this deserved it's own thread even though it's a follow-on from several others.

Of course, if you don't think the paladin needs fixing, then this thread is not for you. I'm not interested in arguments for and against this stance. Please keep the discussion to the benefits, drawbacks, flaws and whatnot of my proposed rules changes

The idea with these is to make the paladin stickier, reduce their dependence on multiple abilities, eliminate ranged-based powers for a melee-based class, and improve OA attacks for all builds. All whilst still maintaining a differentiation between builds favouring either Wisdom or Charisma.

The leader aspects of the class are somewhat enhanced. The change to implement based powers increases the damage potential by making them weapon-based whilst decreasing their effectiveness against multiple targets.

The holy keyword can be added to whatever weapon you want, really. It could be just all weapons but I like the idea of a holy keyword as it means having more holy weapons in the game which is just cool

1) Swap Charisma for Strength in Charisma-based attack powers and use Charisma in those powers for the modifier instead of Wisdom.

2) Lay On Hands 2 uses. Wisdom modifier used as a bonus to the amount gained. Weapons with the holy keyword increase this amount equal to their magical item bonus.

3) Marked for Death: as a minor action, the paladin can make a Wisdom or Charisma-based close burst attack against the Will defence of the target. A successful attack both marks the target and grants temporary hit points equal to the Charisma modifier of the paladin to an ally adjacent to the target. Weapons with the holy keyword add their magical bonus to the attack roll and the temporary hit points given.

4) Divine Challenge: as an immediate interrupt whenever an enemy marked by the paladin shifts or makes an attack not including the paladin, the paladin can make a Wisdom or Charisma vs. Will melee weapon attack. A successful strike slows the target until the start of the paladin's next turn.

5) No implement powers. All implement powers become melee and weapon based, ie. a 3d8 ranged power that is burst 3 now becomes a melee burst, 3 [W] power.

 

[PeelSeel2]

No Cookie for the Pally?

 

[FireLance]

2) Lay On Hands 2 uses. Wisdom modifier used as a bonus to the amount gained. Weapons with the holy keyword increase this amount equal to their magical item bonus.

I think this will actually weaken the leader aspect of the paladin class, unless you're planning to increase it to 2 uses per encounter, in which case it may be strengthening it too much.

 

[Omnifarious Grey]

3) Marked for Death: as a minor action, the paladin can make a Wisdom or Charisma-based close burst attack against the Will defence of the target. A successful attack both marks the target and grants temporary hit points equal to the Charisma modifier of the paladin to an ally adjacent to the target. Weapons with the holy keyword add their magical bonus to the attack roll and the temporary hit points given.

4) Divine Challenge: as an immediate interrupt whenever an enemy marked by the paladin shifts or makes an attack not including the paladin, the paladin can make a Wisdom or Charisma vs. Will melee weapon attack. A successful strike slows the target until the start of the paladin's next turn.

I feel like you have two attacks going on that work, but are competing for what a paladin can do. I think that these two powers together feel like there are a bit too many attacks happening. Perhaps they could be incorporated together, or rather the marked for death power could instead of being an attack, simply cause a foe that attacks an ally that is not yourself would cause that ally to gain those Thp prior to the attack. Also, you can simply have the Paladin be able to lay a mark on an enemy whenever you use a power with the holy keyword, which would make marking easier.

5) No implement powers. All implement powers become melee and weapon based, ie. a 3d8 ranged power that is burst 3 now becomes a melee burst, 3 [W] power.

This change feels like those powers are going to see a much bigger scale based on damage if the player changes weapon. I feel that simply eliminating the implement keyword and allowing for the powers to get the weapon keyword in order to gain the proficiency bonus to attacks only would be more suited thatn having both that and the scaling damage.


Just some thoughts thrown out there.

 

[Psikus]

2) Lay On Hands 2 uses. Wisdom modifier used as a bonus to the amount gained. Weapons with the holy keyword increase this amount equal to their magical item bonus.

I have been considering a change like this, since I think the rate at which LoH improves with increases in Wis is just too much. You should probably increase the number of uses as the paladin levels, though. I was thinking in adding a 3rd use at 16th level, to somewhat mirror Healing Word progression.

5) No implement powers. All implement powers become melee and weapon based, ie. a 3d8 ranged power that is burst 3 now becomes a melee burst, 3 [W] power.

Adding the weapon keyword also adds a proficiency bonus to attack rolls. Is this intended? If you really want to get rid of Holy Symbols (which I think are fine, btw), you could allow the use of weapons as implements.

 

[Garthanos]

If you are dramatically changing things how about fixing the Paladin - Cleric - confusion issue I can't clearly define the distinction to anybody but game geeks who have a tradition . Let me see devoted warrior wearing armor and slingling weapons and miracles in the name of their faith. I really think they ought to be two builds of the same class? Call the class Divine Champion with a Paladin build (Str) and a Priest Build (Cha) and make wisdom secondary to both, shrug... kind of like the Ranger has the two weapon in your face build and the extended range build.

A wisdom focused Miracle Worker would be armored with faith alone and channeling the will of the divine through miracles for attack/control/leadership it might even be better as build of the wizard class which it has more incommon with than the Battle Priest/Palidan