D&D (2024) Flanking no more in D&D 2024?

[Vaalingrade]

IMHO flanking should be just a flat attack and/or damage bonus.

B-but adding 2 is far too complex for new players!

 

[Stormonu]

I'm playing in two 5e games at the moment, one 2014 rules and the other 2024 (switched over from 2014 a few weeks ago). Both have recently changed the flanking rules as we all felt it was way too easy to get advantage.

In the 2014 game, you only get advantage if you yourself are not also flanked. This was to avoid the 'advantage conga lines' that inevitably formed.

The other game, we have introduced facing rules and only the combatant who is behind the opponent would get advantage, not the one in front.

I stopped using facing after 1E after reading some discussions about how the battlemat is just a momentary snapshot and in reality folks would be constantly moving and turning.

Still, if I were to use it in 5E, I'd probably allow folks to use their Reaction to change facing before an attack. They could only do it once before their next turn, but they'd have to weigh taking a shot in their back vs. using the reaction for something else. Once they got swarmed by at least 3 people though, someone's getting them from behind.

 

[ECMO3]

B-but adding 2 is far too complex for new players!

For me it is not that it is complex, just that it is immersion breaking.

I've played both ways and I like no flanking much, much better. In large melees flanking tends to have people fighting in a line with everyone wanting and moving to get flanking against everyone else.

 

[Vaalingrade]

For me it is not that it is complex, just that it is immersion breaking.

That's not why we recoil from it like a vampire to sunlight. It's that math is bad.

I've played both ways and I like no flanking much, much better. In large melees flanking tends to have people fighting in a line with everyone wanting and moving to get flanking against everyone else.

Good news! Now no one has a reason to move at all! Just like in real immersive and exciting combat.

 

[Mort]

Good news! Now no one has a reason to move at all! Just like in real immersive and exciting combat.

Only if the DM, for some reason, doesn't believe in dynamic combats with fun moving parts.

 

[Zardnaar]

Only if the DM, for some reason, doesn't believe in dynamic combats with fun moving parts.

Increases complexity level or RL issues. Eg battlemat vs 3D terrain.

 

[Staffan]

Folks that mention not using flanking because 5e doesn't have "provoke AoOs moving around an enemy within their reach" bring up an interesting point. I had thought that pre-3e editions had flanking but didn't have AoOs, but it turns out that both Flanking and AoOs were introduced in the Combat & Tactics supplement... so if you were to use one, you'd probably use the other.

Pre-C&T 2e also had them, sort of. A "rear attack" would give +2 to hit, as well as remove the opponent's Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). And if you were in melee with someone, you couldn't just move away. You could either Withdraw (moving up to half your movement rate), or you could Flee which would give the opponent a full attack sequence on you – with bonuses for a rear attack. It also says that if you Withdraw, the opponent can follow unless engaged with an ally of yours – it is somewhat unclear if they mean that they can follow right away or if they mean they can follow on their own turn.

 

[Mort]

Increases complexity level or RL issues. Eg battlemat vs 3D terrain.

You don't need expensive 3D terrain to have fun combats.

Increased complexity? Possibly, but there are trade offs for everything. I've found a bit of extra complexity is more than worth it for fun combats, as long as the action is kept moving.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Only if the DM, for some reason, doesn't believe in dynamic combats with fun moving parts.

Who wants to bet any of that will be included in the DMG for new DMs to learn?

 

[Zardnaar]

You don't need expensive 3D terrain to have fun combats.

Increased complexity? Possibly, but there are trade offs for everything. I've found a bit of extra complexity is more than worth it for fun combats, as long as the action is kept moving.

You do kinda need a vattlenat though.

I'm not using them atm. Mostly for complexity and mainly logistical issues.