In practice I think it made no difference - there was no risk of us starting the next day at below full resources in PF, and there would have been no risk of us starting the next day below full resources in 3e or 4e either. This encounter was not an attritive encounter.
Flipping Module Conversion on its Head
- Thread starter Vyvyan Basterd
- Start date
In practice I think it made no difference - there was no risk of us starting the next day at below full resources in PF, and there would have been no risk of us starting the next day below full resources in 3e or 4e either. This encounter was not an attritive encounter.
Or, start with what the adventure author is trying to get out of the scene, and work in accordance with that vision. I think VB's goblin problem came from treating an intended 'flavour' encounter as if it were intended to be a combat challenge. Maybe the 3e crunch was misleading by making the goblin a 1st level Ranger, implying it was supposed to threaten the party.
Converting Crimson Throne, I see a lot of places where encounters seem to have a dramatic purpose, not a threaten-the-party purpose. A lot of them look to work best with combat ELs well below party level. Trying to turn them into threatening combat encounters in 4e would just result in tedious grind and a feeling of saminess to the fights. Actual challenging fights should be kept as highlights.
Manbearcat
Legend
I would certainly agree with that advice but it appears that sometimes what adventure authors are trying to get out of a scene is incoherent at best and an impenetrable mystery at worst! Given how you've explained things, I suspect that you're right that this is just a little thematic color, nothing more. I can't imagine it was meant to truly ablate resources at any level distinguishable from nil.
Dannager
First Post
Weirdly, out of all of the Pathfinder adventures and all of the encounters I've converted to 4e, this is the one design choice that keeps coming back to haunt me.
I've since warmed to the idea of leaving it as just one goblin (though I still think it works fine with more than goblin one in there - it fits perfectly with my understandings of the various insanities of goblinkind in Golarion) by basically removing it from the encounter framework and treating it as more of a story event. If I felt like the adventure needed some extra "meat" to it I could easily throw in another encounter elsewhere.
If I ran it today, it would probably be an over-in-a-flash encounter designed to spice up the otherwise fairly mundane events between the Swallowtail Festival and the Glassworks/Catacombs instead of serving as a challenging encounter in its own right.
Dannager
First Post
Yeah, this is one of the changes that makes me more comfortable with running it quick-and-dirty-like. The increase in character strength at 1st level without a similar increase in monster strength makes that single goblin ranger a less-than-credible threat to a party of adventurers (whereas in 3.5 it would have been reasonable to call that encounter a legitimate challenge for the party).
Trit One-Ear
Explorer
Perhaps I should start a new thread for this question, but it seems so closely related to what we're talking about.
How often do you as 4E DMs use non-challenging encounters? Next session my characters are going to investigate an abandoned temple, now inhabited by gnolls, who have begun to dig up some ghosts of the temple's previous inhabitants.
Due to the constraints, I don't want to have too many real combats get in the way of the story, but story-wise it feels important to have the players have to deal with some angry ghosts. This is just an example.
I agree with earlier posts about a lack of flavor encounters in 4E. This is one thing I miss most about 3E (and 3.5); the feeling that one or two wandering monsters, while not a real threat, and some impact on the party. Now I feel silly having the players roll initiative for things like this. It just lengthens the session without really accomplishing much (mechanically). Maybe the waste a daily, or an encounter (if there's no time to rest after), and if I'm lucky I make them burn a surge. With the risk of grind already in 4E, does this just add to that problem?
All this being said, I'd love to move away from the strict encounter-based story-telling I've been using lately. Just wondering if you chaps have any thoughts or experience with this.
And if this feels too much a departure from the original topic, disregard this post and I'll start another thread.
Trit
How often do you as 4E DMs use non-challenging encounters? Next session my characters are going to investigate an abandoned temple, now inhabited by gnolls, who have begun to dig up some ghosts of the temple's previous inhabitants.
Due to the constraints, I don't want to have too many real combats get in the way of the story, but story-wise it feels important to have the players have to deal with some angry ghosts. This is just an example.
I agree with earlier posts about a lack of flavor encounters in 4E. This is one thing I miss most about 3E (and 3.5); the feeling that one or two wandering monsters, while not a real threat, and some impact on the party. Now I feel silly having the players roll initiative for things like this. It just lengthens the session without really accomplishing much (mechanically). Maybe the waste a daily, or an encounter (if there's no time to rest after), and if I'm lucky I make them burn a surge. With the risk of grind already in 4E, does this just add to that problem?
All this being said, I'd love to move away from the strict encounter-based story-telling I've been using lately. Just wondering if you chaps have any thoughts or experience with this.
And if this feels too much a departure from the original topic, disregard this post and I'll start another thread.
Trit
keterys
First Post
I've done it a fair amount in 4e - I just don't necessarily tie it to a combat/rest.
A scene in a skill challenge, even if it doesn't necessarily involve a skill check. For example, you could easily do the goblin as part of a "Saving the Town" challenge.
An opportunity to roleplay. It's okay to just say what's happening, and make a story around it.
A scene in a skill challenge, even if it doesn't necessarily involve a skill check. For example, you could easily do the goblin as part of a "Saving the Town" challenge.
An opportunity to roleplay. It's okay to just say what's happening, and make a story around it.
Non-challenging combat encounters can be a problem in 4e. I think the trick may be to roll initiative as a group skill check vs a DC that is the monster/enemy's init+10;everyone who beats it gets a chance to act before it can; if it gets to act then have everyone else go afterwards. Don't bother writing down init, which IME is the main time sink, and if it somehow goes into round 2 then roll again next round.
This might actually work well for regular combat too, as long as there is only one monster init for all monsters so the GM has minimal tracking.
This might actually work well for regular combat too, as long as there is only one monster init for all monsters so the GM has minimal tracking.
Trit One-Ear
Explorer
This is a very cool idea, and one I may be trying for the above example. Use normal surprise rounds for the first time a host comes through the walls, but after that use the skill check method. Won't bother making a map or keeping track of pieces; I play online via map tool, so throw away maps either look lousy or take too much time.
Trit
