Fluff only campaign settings? (Now with a comprehensive list!)

[Pramas]

Sounds cool. What are you guys doing with power levels of NPCs? Are you rating them on some sort of power scale or just not worrying about it?

Each NPC is rated as being an apprentice, a journeyman, or a master to give GMs a rough benchmark to work with. That and the character descriptions give you a pretty good idea of what each character is all about.

 

[catsclaw227]

Each NPC is rated as being an apprentice, a journeyman, or a master to give GMs a rough benchmark to work with. That and the character descriptions give you a pretty good idea of what each character is all about.

This approach is interesting because it allows GMs to decide what these power-levels mean for their game. In one game, it may mean 1st/5th/8th, and in another GMs game it may mean 3rd/10th/17th.

 

[Darklone]

Seconded. Great stuff.

 

[S'mon]

Each NPC is rated as being an apprentice, a journeyman, or a master to give GMs a rough benchmark to work with. That and the character descriptions give you a pretty good idea of what each character is all about.

I'd like a bit more than that 3-level description, though.

IMC I break 'regular' NPCs into

Novice
Trained
Experienced
Veteran
Elite

Roughly corresponding to levels 1-5 in 3e D&D. But I also want to know if an NPC exceeds the normal human scale, eg is

Ultra-Elite
Heroic
Legendary

Which might be levels 6-8, 9-12 and 13+ in a typical 3e campaign.

 

[kroh]

I think the Label system is a great idea! That way you can "stat" out an entry for setting elements without "statting" anything. I think this is a great direction for publishers to go in as it is a common sense approach to reaching a wide audience. I also like what Green Ronin is doing with Freeport in that there will be rules supplements that adapt the setting to some of the more popular game mechanic choices.

I think that settings should be devoid of specific rule sets. We have d20, True 20, OSRIC, GURPS, HERO, Hackmaster, Unisystem, Storyteller, FUDGE, etc... How many platforms for playing a game do we have to have before some one says... that's enough? This is much like the video game industry. The publishers of games could really care less what platform they sell to...what they want is to sell to the PLAYERS who have these platforms. RPG's have just been holding out because the business model was that each rule system had to have a reason for it's existence (d20 did DnD, HERO has Champions, Silhouette for Heavy Gear, etc). In the beginning people created the rules to simulate specific genre but GURPS and HERO showed people the value of "toolbox" role playing systems.

With so many systems now toted as, "create any genre and play in a thousand worlds," why do we really need rule specific settings? As a player, I just play in what ever rule system the GM throws out there. AS a GM, I often times steer clear of published settings for two reasons:

1. The system of rules used to convey the setting requires a degree from Harvard to play effectively.​

2. The setting is so defined with no room for play that the GM has to either ignore published material or the players feel that they have no place in changing the world.​

I am going to be picking up the New Freeport because the previous stuff was great and this new presentation makes it more friendly for my games.... Plus, how can you go wrong with pirates!

Regards,
Walt

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I think it was mentioned before, but the Iron Kingdoms World Guide is a couple hundred pages of sweet, sweet fluff (save a single callout). It rocks.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Certainly. Where's the preorder option?

We probably won't have a preorder for this. We're notoriously slow and bad with release dates and I don't want to get anyone mad at us for being so late...

I would be interested in buying your setting only if it was fluff only, but most important, if it also has a nice layout and art (as the one which is shown on your website).

Well, I can tell you that it will be the best art and layout that we have ever produced. Have to thank you BTW, I believe you were the one that turned me on to this idea many moons ago. Now it just seems to make the most sense.

Problem with that though is if it follows standard d20 design methodology, it's still going to be obvious in the writing as things still have to be heavily quantified in the d20 system.

I don't think it has to be obvious. There are some things that might be hard to dance around. I'll post on our blog how we're doing with it.

Jeff, I saw your latest blog. Hope things work out well for you guys; you're some of the best guys in the industry.

Thanks! Its been a long road and hopefully we can make something of it. We'll get WMDII out there soon, don't worry.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I think the Label system is a great idea! That way you can "stat" out an entry for setting elements without "statting" anything. I think this is a great direction for publishers to go in as it is a common sense approach to reaching a wide audience. I also like what Green Ronin is doing with Freeport in that there will be rules supplements that adapt the setting to some of the more popular game mechanic choices.

What's the motivation to buy a statless book when you can buy a novel for a much smaller price if you're going to be doing all the leg work yourself?

I think that settings should be devoid of specific rule sets. We have d20, True 20, OSRIC, GURPS, HERO, Hackmaster, Unisystem, Storyteller, FUDGE, etc... How many platforms for playing a game do we have to have before some one says... that's enough? This is much like the video game industry.

But the systems, in all cases for the video game industry, is invisible to the end user. Unfortunatly, in a RPG, the DM is the 'processor' and is going to have to pick up all this slack.

The publishers of games could really care less what platform they sell to...what they want is to sell to the PLAYERS who have these platforms. RPG's have just been holding out because the business model was that each rule system had to have a reason for it's existence (d20 did DnD, HERO has Champions, Silhouette for Heavy Gear, etc). In the beginning people created the rules to simulate specific genre but GURPS and HERO showed people the value of "toolbox" role playing systems.

With so many systems now toted as, "create any genre and play in a thousand worlds," why do we really need rule specific settings?

Because the game rules reflect reality. In GURPS, falling 100 feet is much different than falling 100 feet in Hero or D&D. Because the GM is going to have to do ALL of the prep work in a setting without any rules to back him up. Because many campaigns are built around 'niche' ideas that need specific game mechanis to effectively explain.

As a player, I just play in what ever rule system the GM throws out there.

Now think about that. As a player. Players buy books filled with background information or crunch? Even WoTC long ago realized which way the wind was blowing when they were doing 3.0 Forgotten Realms books and compared the sales of crunch heavy books with crunch light books. Players want to do things that aren't necessarily covered in the core books.

AS a GM, I often times steer clear of published settings for two reasons:

1. The system of rules used to convey the setting requires a degree from Harvard to play effectively.​

Eh? I'd have to see what game system you'd be using as an example there.

2. The setting is so defined with no room for play that the GM has to either ignore published material or the players feel that they have no place in changing the world.​

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. I've DMed everything from Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance to home brews. Players have had fun in both. If the players feel that they have no place changing the world, is that the setting's fault or the lack of a GM enabling the players to do that?

I am going to be picking up the New Freeport because the previous stuff was great and this new presentation makes it more friendly for my games.... Plus, how can you go wrong with pirates!

Regards,
Walt

I'll also be picking up the New Freeport because I like Green Ronin's fantasy stuff. Hopefully they'll come out with some more d20 stuff if the d20 accessory sells well (Advanced Races print and Advanced Classes?).

In my own 'history' of statless games, it's another element not mentioned, but professional publishers like Green Ronin will be able to provide layout and art several degrees above Harn and other past products so that might give them a true leg up from previous efforts to bring universalness to a setting.

 

[kroh]

What's the motivation to buy a statless book when you can buy a novel for a much smaller price if you're going to be doing all the leg work yourself?

I disagree with this to an extent. Although a novel would be cheaper, a novel focuses on a specific story element within an overall setting. The book is written to convey the story and setting is merely a plot device. The Fluffy written game setting book would be written (at least I hope it would be written this way) with the game in mind and would give much more attention to a wider array of details. Although I see your point with the novel, what the statless game book provides are the motivations for NPC's (for which drag and drop NPC stats can usually be found in most good RPG systems), backdrops for more than just a story element in a novel, and juicy tidbits for GM's that might not have seen such elements in a story.

But the systems, in all cases for the video game industry, is invisible to the end user. Unfortunatly, in a RPG, the DM is the 'processor' and is going to have to pick up all this slack.

That is a good reason to have the rules companions to the settings. Yes the GM is the processor, but much like the video game industry, even though the game is the same whether you play it on Wii, Xbox360, or PC, some of the code (rules) that the platforms use to project it on screen is different. With the proposed Rules Companions, the GM doesn't have to do any leg work The setting is statted out for each set of rules and the leg work is just setting up the adventures (depending on your GM style).

As a player. Players buy books filled with background information or crunch? Even WoTC long ago realized which way the wind was blowing when they were doing 3.0 Forgotten Realms books and compared the sales of crunch heavy books with crunch light books. Players want to do things that aren't necessarily covered in the core books.

Very true, but this is not about the crunchy splat books, but a fluffy setting book. If you are using the setting with a system that is heavy on class oriented , feat driven splatter, and the players want to use that with the setting... shouldn't the GM be able to plug that right in? If your player wants to fit in his 3/4-drow/warforge/dragon - soulknife/necromancer/French maid with the kung fu grip and you have the d200 rules companion...where's the harm?

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you. I've DMed everything from Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance to home brews. Players have had fun in both. If the players feel that they have no place changing the world, is that the setting's fault or the lack of a GM enabling the players to do that?

Good point. I was more speaking of games I was in where the players would argue with the GM because he had changed cannon material ( I could care less) or we as the players wanted to do something that would vastly throw the metaplot out of whack. Vastly defined settings made for argue fests...but this was solely my experience and why I personally do not buy overwritten settings.

Thanks for the rebuttal JoeGKushner! I love a different point of view and yours was well written. Although I will NOT be buying forgotten realms any time soon (I have all of the original release, once is enough) I have been following the Eberron setting (guilty pleasure) as one of my standard purchases and it has been fun.

Have Fun Gaming!
Regards,
Walt

 

[JVisgaitis]

But the systems, in all cases for the video game industry, is invisible to the end user. Unfortunatly, in a RPG, the DM is the 'processor' and is going to have to pick up all this slack.

Very good post on this. Personally, I agree 100%. I wouldn't be the market for a crunchless campaign setting as I would have to come up with all of the stats and everything else. That's why I believe that its imperative to release a crunch book alongside the fluff book for lazy DMs like myself. That's something we'll do for d20 and possibly Runequest if we go this route.

How that will translate into a product and what effects it will have has yet to be seen and we may fall flat on our faces with this. Who knows? At least if this is an abyssmal failure like Denizens of Avadnu (and I mean in units sold), we have a back up plan for it and can still use it as a bible for moving Violet Dawn into other mediums. I still have the outlines of the 5 book series burning a hole on my hard drive...