D&D 5E Fluff & Rule, Lore & Crunch. The Interplay of Class, System, and Color in D&D

[prabe]

Oh, I agree that evolutionary history is the reason for the classes as they are, that just doesn't make me like it any more.

It's like how I'm sure there's a good evolutionary reason for a platypus to be an egg-laying, duck-billed mammal; that doesn't change that it's a stupid, stupid animal.

I would probably describe the platypus more as "nonsensical" or maybe "surreal" than "stupid," but that doesn't exactly negate your point (and it's not intended to).

 

[Alzrius]

Going by the books that is still going to be campaign specific.

Forgotten Realms has different gods, cosmology, and world than Eberron.

It has been varied campaign to campaign since the beginning.

Well, that sort of depends on how far out you scale the meta-cosmology. Remember how, in 3E, the Forgotten Realms was given its own cosmology, removing it from the Great Wheel it had been a part of prior to that? Then the Player's Guide to Faerun (affiliate link) comes along and very quietly mentions that you can get to the Great Wheel cosmology via the Shadow Plane.

Nothing was ever done like that for Eberron that I'm aware of, but it's not hard to imagine something similar.

 

[TwoSix]

I would probably describe the platypus more as "nonsensical" or maybe "surreal" than "stupid," but that doesn't exactly negate your point (and it's not intended to).

Full disclosure: very few of my posts are serious. . Unless I make a brilliant point, then I totally meant it.

 

[prabe]

Full disclosure: very few of my posts are serious. . Unless I make a brilliant point, then I totally meant it.

No worries. I appreciate the weirdness of the platypus (and the underrated weirdness of the echidna, for that matter) but I was mostly nitpicking word choice, because it's what I do.

FWIW, I don't disagree that the classes are kinda a mess, and that trying to accommodate legacy (both in terms of having strong lore, and in terms of not) is probably at the heart of why. I'm not motivated to do much about it in my games, but I see it.

 

[Mind of tempest]

is this going to end up with endless tangents about what each class should be? as I have ideas for monk so call me for that.

 

[Voadam]

Well, that sort of depends on how far out you scale the meta-cosmology. Remember how, in 3E, the Forgotten Realms was given its own cosmology, removing it from the Great Wheel it had been a part of prior to that? Then the Player's Guide to Faerun (affiliate link) comes along and very quietly mentions that you can get to the Great Wheel cosmology via the Shadow Plane.

Nothing was ever done like that for Eberron that I'm aware of, but it's not hard to imagine something similar.

I have not read the Player's Guide stuff but these setting and cosmology connections have changed throughout D&D's history whether different worlds are on the same plane, alternate prime material planes, linked up by the Great Wheel, on the same material plane and linked by Spelljammer, alternate cosmology entirely, alternate cosmology but linked up to the normal one, alternate cosmology but not really known so they might be different ways of seeing the same thing.

Sounds like campaign specific choices that will vary.

Generally if you say you want to play a cleric of X god in D&D, X god's availability as an option will vary from campaign to campaign.

 

[Mannahnin]

Very heavily lore dependent.

Why do burglars have the ability to use spell scrolls? It might have to do with the Gray Mouser doing so in one of his stories.

The Grey Mouser, and the fact that Thieves can screw up those spells the Grey Mouser and Cugel the Clever.

Origins of Thieves Using Scrolls - Gray Mouser

Math, history, and design of old-school D&D.

deltasdnd.blogspot.com

Origins of Thieves Using Scrolls - Cugel the Clever

Math, history, and design of old-school D&D.

deltasdnd.blogspot.com

 

[Scribe]

Going by the books that is still going to be campaign specific.

Forgotten Realms has different gods, cosmology, and world than Eberron.

It has been varied campaign to campaign since the beginning.

Oh for sure, but those settings still are global, it's still something shared.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I have not found the flavor to crunch ratio in D&D satisfying since the TSR era. The WOTC approach never quite resonated with me

 

[jmartkdr2]

For what it's worth, not all "rangers" (the profession) are Rangers (the class) nor are all Rangers "rangers", but MOST Rangers ARE "rangers" and vice versa.

Honestly, this encapsulates my feeling on the matter. Classes must have mechanics, and should have lore*, but for a specific character concept the lore may be changed (or pasted onto a different class).

* a class can offload its lore to its subclass, the way fighters usually do. But one or the other should carry that load, or you can wind up with characters with no lore behind them, who therefore don't fit into the world. This is also a risk of multiclassing: you can make a build so divorced from the world that the resulting character isn't really a character so much as a meeple. That is less fun.