Flurry of Blows and Two Weapon Fighting

[Camarath]

Interesting that a monk with TWF/flurry stacking doesn't beat unarmed flurry. Obviously, levels other than 20 are important, but I think this is pretty clear indication that TWF+flurry isn't as bad as many would make it out to be.

This uses BAB and Base weapon Damage Only.
AC # - (average Hits per round) average damage per round

Monk level 1
Unarmed (1d6) Flurry
Ac 11 – (0.8) 2.8
Ac 16 – (0.3) 1.05
TWF/Flurry
Ac 11 – (0.9) 3.15
Ac 16 – (0.15) 0.525
Ranger
Ac 11 – (0.9) 4.05
Ac 16 – (0.4) 1.8

Monk level 5
Unarmed (1d8) Flurry
Ac 11 – (1.2) 5.4
Ac 16 – (0.7) 3.15
Ac 21 – (0.2) 0.9
Quarterstaff TWF/Flurry
Ac 11 – (1.5) 5.25
Ac 16 – (0.75) 2.625
Ac 21 – (0.15) 0.525
Ranger
Ac 11 – (1.3) 4.5
Ac 16 – (0.8) 3.6
Ac 21 – (0.3) 1.35


Monk level 8
Unarmed (1d10) Flurry
Ac 11 – (2) 11
Ac 16 – (1.25) 6.875
Ac 21 – (0.55) 3.025
AC 26 – (0.15) 0.825
Quarterstaff TWF/Flurry
Ac 11 – (2.35) 8.225
Ac 16 – (1.35) 4.725
Ac 21 – (0.5) 1.75
Ac 26 - (0.2) 0.7
Ranger
Ac 11 – (2.7) 12.15
Ac 16 – (1.7) 6.125
Ac 21 – (0.7) 2.45
Ac 26 – (0.25) 0.875


Monk level 9
Unarmed (1d10) Flurry
Ac 11 – (2.15) 11.825
Ac 16 – (1.4) 7.7
Ac 21 – (0.65) 3.575
Ac 26 – (0.15) 0.825
Quarterstaff TWF/Flurry
Ac 11 – (3) 10.5
Ac 16 – (1.75) 6.125
Ac 21 – (0.7) 2.45
Ac 26 – (0.25) 0.875
Ranger
Ac 11 – (2.9) 13.05
Ac 16 – (1.9) 8.55
Ac 21 – (0.9) 4.05
Ac 26 – (0.3) 1.35

Monk level 11
Unarmed (1d10) Flurry
Ac 11 – (3.35) 18.425
Ac 16 – (2.35) 12.925
Ac 21 – (1.35) 7.425
Ac 26 – (0.5) 2.75
Ac 31 – (0.2) 1.1
Quarterstaff TWF/Flurry
Ac 11 – (4.3) 15.05
Ac 16 – (2.8) 9.8
Ac 21 – (1.3) 4.55
Ac 26 - (0.3) 1.05
Ac 31 - (0.3) 1.05
Ranger
Ac 11 – (4.2) 18.9
Ac 16 – (2.7) 12.15
Ac 21 – (1.4) 6.3
Ac 26 - (0.6) 2.7
Ac 31 - (0.3) 1.35


Monk level 15
Unarmed (2d6) Flurry
Ac 11 – (4.2) 29.4
Ac 16 – (3.25) 22.75
Ac 21 – (2) 14
Ac 26 – (1) 7
Ac 31 – (0.25) 1.75
Ac 36 – (0.25) 1.75
Quarterstaff TWF/Flurry
Ac 11 – (6.3) 22.05
Ac 16 – (4.5) 15.75
Ac 21 – (2.6) 9.1
Ac 26 - (1.2) 4.2
Ac 31 - (0.4) 1.4
Ac 36 – (0.4) 1.4
Ranger
Ac 11 – (5) 22.5
Ac 16 – (3.9) 17.55
Ac 21 – (2.4) 10.8
Ac 26 – (1.2) 5.4
Ac 31 – (0.5) 2.25
Ac 36 – (0.3) 1.35


Monk level 20
Unarmed (2d10) Flurry
Ac 11 – (4.55) 50.05
Ac 16 – (4.1) 45.1
Ac 21 – (3) 33
Ac 26 – (1.8) 19.8
Ac 31 – (0.85) 9.35
Ac 36 – (0.25) 2.75
Quarterstaff TWF/Flurry
Ac 11 – (6.9) 24.15
Ac 16 – (5.7) 19.95
Ac 21 – (3.7) 12.95
Ac 26 – (2) 7
Ac 31 – (0.8) 2.8
Ac 36 – (0.4) 1.4
Ranger
Ac 11 – (6.25) 28.125
Ac 16 – (5.4) 24.3
Ac 21 – (4.05) 18.225
Ac 26 – (2.45) 11.025
Ac 31 – (1.25) 5.625
Ac 36 – (0.55) 2.475


It should be noted that only the Quarterstaff TWF/Flurry Monk needs a dexterity of 19 the Unarmed Flurry Monk and the Ranger don't need a high dex and can apply their high scores to other abilities. A Fighter would have the same average hits per round and damage as a Ranger but would need a Dex of 19.

 

[LokiDR]

It should be noted that only the Quarterstaff TWF/Flurry Monk needs a dexterity of 19 the Unarmed Flurry Monk and the Ranger don't need a high dex and can apply their high scores to other abilities. A Fighter would have the same average hits per round and damage as a Ranger but would need a Dex of 19.

The only time that the TWF/Flurry is more damaging that unarmed flurry is 1st level. Interesting.

Some other thoughts: are there any other monk weapons that would be more damaging than quarterstaff to dual wield? IIRC they are all 1d6 or worse, so I don't think so.

It has been pointed out that it is easier to enchant a quarterstaff than your fists. Although I think the pricing on the amulet of mighty fists is lame and the neclace of natual weapons makes much more sense, it is core rules. At 20th level, you have oodles of cash to play with, and the unarmed bonus maxes at +5 where the quarterstaff could be up to +5+5d6 energies on each end. Enchanting your fists is just harder and more limiting. I think that is more of a hole than TWF/flurry stacking.

 

[Camarath]

The higher bonus to attack and damage the better TWF/Flurry becomes.

It would be interesting to wield two Vorpal Kamas with TWF/Flurry.

Also if you use the Magic of Faerun item Bracers of Striking you can add weapon special abilities to your unarmed strikes. This IMO would allow a + 5 enhancement bonus and +10 points worth of special abilities when used with the Amulet of Mighty Fists. It would cost a bit more than a +10 Quarterstaff but the benefits could be very good.

 

[LokiDR]

Also if you use the Magic of Faerun item Bracers of Striking you can add weapon special abilities to your unarmed strikes. This IMO would allow a + 5 enhancement bonus and +10 points worth of special abilities when used with the Amulet of Mighty Fists. It would cost a bit more than a +10 Quarterstaff but the benefits could be very good.

It shouldn't. They are both enchanted as double weapons, IIRC.

 

[Snipehunt]

Not quite, I think the higher the attack bonus is relative to AC the better TWF/flurry is.

I would love to see the vorpal flurry!

 

[Camarath]

Not quite, I think the higher the attack bonus is relative to AC the better TWF/flurry is.

I didn't make it clear but I was primarily referring to additional bonuses to attack and damage other than BAB such as strength and enhancement bonuses. As the factors other than BAB and Base weapon damage increase the relative difference in those factors decreases and the additional attacks start to have a bigger impact on your hits per round and your damage than BAB and Base weapon damage do.

It shouldn't. They are both enchanted as double weapons, IIRC.

I meant that together the Bracers of Striking and the Amulet of Mighty Fists would be a good bit more than the +10 Quarterstaff but you get +5 points worth of additional abilities.

 

[Snipehunt]

Aaah, that makes sense. Good point. Hey, we're both right.

 

[LokiDR]

I meant that together the Bracers of Striking and the Amulet of Mighty Fists would be a good bit more than the +10 Quarterstaff but you get +5 points worth of additional abilities.

There are a few problems I see with that. First, bracers of striking are non-core and therefore outside the scope of a lot of games. I like FR, but many others don't. Second, I think the pricing formula on the necklace of natural weapons makes more sense. N natural weapons*Cost of all weapon enhancements+400. Third, if you were going to stack the amulet and the bracers, I believe the bracers still need the +1 enhancement as they are "enchanted as weapons" IIRC. So the most you could get would be +9 effective from the bracers and +5 from the amulet (+1 overlap). That is still uber, but expensive enough to be prohibitive.